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pyite20v Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2010 Posts: 29 Location: San Francisco, CA
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Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 2:16 pm Post subject: Is this noise normal? On my 86 syncro, transaxle makes flapping |
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Please watch this 10 second video. When I rotate either rear wheel, there is a flapping noise from the transaxle.
Rear of the van jacked in the air, front wheels on the ground. Decoupler de-coupled.
I dont notice the sound while driving.
Rebuilt Porsche 944 Turbo axels and CV joints.
Link
_________________ 86 Syncro Westfalia EJ25 OBDII
Nevada City CA |
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16CVs Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2004 Posts: 4024 Location: Redwood City, California
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Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 2:21 pm Post subject: Re: Is this noise normal? On my 86 syncro, transaxle makes flapping |
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Mine did that, sounded like it had something stuck to the tire, turned out to be as bad ring an pinion.
Stacy _________________ 1987 Syncro Westfalia Triple knob (bastard)
1989 Syncro Tristar Triple knob "Swedish"
2013 Jetta Hybrid a true "Zwitter"
Samba member # 14980
Call anytime number 650 722 4914 .
Keep Your van running and upkept tastefully for the love of the hobby.
Don't let your van end up in an "abortions" thread. |
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pyite20v Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2010 Posts: 29 Location: San Francisco, CA
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Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 2:52 pm Post subject: Re: Is this noise normal? On my 86 syncro, transaxle makes flapping |
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Thats exactly what I didn't want you to say. It was rebuilt a year ago by AA so hoping its something else. _________________ 86 Syncro Westfalia EJ25 OBDII
Nevada City CA |
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Bassyaks Samba Member
Joined: October 06, 2010 Posts: 1137 Location: S.E. Connetitcut
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Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 3:27 pm Post subject: Re: Is this noise normal? On my 86 syncro, transaxle makes flapping |
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Do you have a locker in the rear? |
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pyite20v Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2010 Posts: 29 Location: San Francisco, CA
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Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 3:36 pm Post subject: Re: Is this noise normal? On my 86 syncro, transaxle makes flapping |
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No locker in the rear. _________________ 86 Syncro Westfalia EJ25 OBDII
Nevada City CA |
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pyite20v Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2010 Posts: 29 Location: San Francisco, CA
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Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 3:45 pm Post subject: Re: Is this noise normal? On my 86 syncro, transaxle makes flapping |
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Is this safe to drive, or is it going to explode on me on the hwy? Was planning on taking the Ms to Yosemite tomorrow. _________________ 86 Syncro Westfalia EJ25 OBDII
Nevada City CA |
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16CVs Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2004 Posts: 4024 Location: Redwood City, California
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Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 5:37 pm Post subject: Re: Is this noise normal? On my 86 syncro, transaxle makes flapping |
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I wouldn't drive it until you figure out what is bad. If it is a bad R/P or anything else you are introducing metal shavings into the oil which feeds the bearing.
Hopefully it is not a R/P, but you'd better figure it out now.
Stacy _________________ 1987 Syncro Westfalia Triple knob (bastard)
1989 Syncro Tristar Triple knob "Swedish"
2013 Jetta Hybrid a true "Zwitter"
Samba member # 14980
Call anytime number 650 722 4914 .
Keep Your van running and upkept tastefully for the love of the hobby.
Don't let your van end up in an "abortions" thread. |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50348
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Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 6:09 pm Post subject: Re: Is this noise normal? On my 86 syncro, transaxle makes flapping |
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Is the tranny in gear so nothing is turning inside the box but the spider gears? Are the two rear wheels just turning in opposite direction from each other when the noise is occurring? If these things are true then likely you are just hearing the spider gears meshing and have nothing to worry about. |
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pyite20v Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2010 Posts: 29 Location: San Francisco, CA
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Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 6:26 pm Post subject: Re: Is this noise normal? On my 86 syncro, transaxle makes flapping |
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The tranny is not in gear, so its just the one wheel turning. I didnt try turing it in gear so I dont know if the noise is different. I cannot hear anything while it is on the ground.
Could it just be spider gears? It doesn't sound metalic.... _________________ 86 Syncro Westfalia EJ25 OBDII
Nevada City CA |
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pyite20v Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2010 Posts: 29 Location: San Francisco, CA
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Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 6:53 pm Post subject: Re: Is this noise normal? On my 86 syncro, transaxle makes flapping |
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Jacked it back up and put it in gear, and now there is no noise.
No noise when not in gear either. Could it have fallen back in place somehow? _________________ 86 Syncro Westfalia EJ25 OBDII
Nevada City CA |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50348
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Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 7:06 pm Post subject: Re: Is this noise normal? On my 86 syncro, transaxle makes flapping |
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The answer would be "I don't know, or at least am not sure" If your pinion bearings are going, the ring and pinion could run out of alignment and cause noise.
FWIW, I have had pinion bearing problems on both automatic and manual Vanagon boxes. |
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Sodo Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007 Posts: 9609 Location: Western WA
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Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:01 am Post subject: Re: Is this noise normal? On my 86 syncro, transaxle makes flapping |
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If you've busted a ring gear tooth, there's a pretty good chance the broken tooth is stuck on the drainplug magnet. If you have a broken tooth, you CANNOT drive it. Except perhaps gently downhill for a few miles, I've heard of that being done.
Was that a 48hp Diesel I heard?..... If it's big engine methinks you need a habit of checking your drainplug at the drop of a hat, Syncro trans is getting way to expensive to treat casually. _________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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pyite20v Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2010 Posts: 29 Location: San Francisco, CA
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Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:29 am Post subject: Re: Is this noise normal? On my 86 syncro, transaxle makes flapping |
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There was no engine on in the video, I was just turning the tire by hand. Now there is no noise. Drove it to town and back last night and there was no noise.
Could it have just been the spider gears in a weird position from jacking the car up on one side or something? _________________ 86 Syncro Westfalia EJ25 OBDII
Nevada City CA |
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Syncro Jael Samba Member
Joined: December 19, 2013 Posts: 2204 Location: Utah
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Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:34 am Post subject: Re: Is this noise normal? On my 86 syncro, transaxle makes flapping |
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^^^^
Agreed.
Check the magnet before you drive it again.
These boxes run very quiet so a noise like that is not good. But really strange that you do not hear it while driving. You could purchase a cheap scope and take a look inside the fill/drain ports to check some things out.
I have never had a transaxle heal itself after it starts making noises.
_________________ 1987 Syncro Westfalia Hightop - NAHT
Subaru EJ25 Forged Frankenmotor, Triple Knob.
Jael = (Mountain Goat) |
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Sodo Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007 Posts: 9609 Location: Western WA
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Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:41 am Post subject: Re: Is this noise normal? On my 86 syncro, transaxle makes flapping |
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Wildthings wrote: |
Is the tranny in gear so nothing is turning inside the box but the spider gears? Are the two rear wheels just turning in opposite direction from each other when the noise is occurring? If these things are true then likely you are just hearing the spider gears meshing and have nothing to worry about. |
pyite20v wrote: |
The tranny is not in gear, so its just the one wheel turning. I didnt try turing it in gear so I dont know if the noise is different. I cannot hear anything while it is on the ground.
Could it just be spider gears? It doesn't sound metalic.... |
OK so it's decpoupled, in neutral, one wheel off-ground. So the sound is when the spider gears are walking around the non-turning other axle gear, and spinning the pinion at double-speed...... Hmmm....
I'd tend to agree it's just the differential spider gears. They're straight-cut gears, which make noise, and they have no "bearings" thus have a little slop to wobble in. And I suppose they could make more noise when the oil is hot, and be quiet when cold? Spider gears don''t cause much trouble.
I can't end this post without advising you to look at your drainplug magnet anyway....... _________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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gears Samba Member
Joined: October 28, 2002 Posts: 4391 Location: Tamarack, Bend, Kailua
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Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:47 am Post subject: Re: Is this noise normal? On my 86 syncro, transaxle makes flapping |
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I'd agree that's it's something with the spider gears, and that it's FAR from a normal sound. It could be that the shim on the backside of the side gear(s) has worn into the housing for some reason.
You didn't hear it driving into town because the spiders only move (relative to their matching side gears) when going through turns .. and even then they don't move much. Your noise test made the spiders WAY more active than they are in actual driving.
Please don't be lazy and just shrug this off .. show us your drain magnet. _________________ aka Pablo, Geary
9.36 @ 146 in '86 Hot & Sticky
'90 Syncro Westy SVX
'87 Syncro GL 2.5
https://guardtransaxle.com |
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crazyvwvanman Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2008 Posts: 9935 Location: Orbiting San Diego
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Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 12:41 pm Post subject: Re: Is this noise normal? On my 86 syncro, transaxle makes flapping |
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I wondered if the noise was perhaps the decoupler not 100% pulled into disengagement. The frequency of the noise seems a little too fast for spider gears. The decoupler rotates with the pinion shaft and the pinion shaft rotates at about 5 times wheel speed. Could you tell that the noise wasn't from the nose area of the tranny where the decoupler lives?
Mark |
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gears Samba Member
Joined: October 28, 2002 Posts: 4391 Location: Tamarack, Bend, Kailua
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Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:20 pm Post subject: Re: Is this noise normal? On my 86 syncro, transaxle makes flapping |
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I think you're close, Mark .. I'm now thinking it was actually the tips of engagement teeth of shift sleeve and gear barely contacting, the result of not being in true neutral.
pyite20v wrote: |
Jacked it back up and put it in gear, and now there is no noise.
No noise when not in gear either. Could it have fallen back in place somehow? |
_________________ aka Pablo, Geary
9.36 @ 146 in '86 Hot & Sticky
'90 Syncro Westy SVX
'87 Syncro GL 2.5
https://guardtransaxle.com |
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Sodo Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007 Posts: 9609 Location: Western WA
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Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:40 pm Post subject: Re: Is this noise normal? On my 86 syncro, transaxle makes flapping |
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crazyvwvanman wrote: |
I wondered if the noise was perhaps the decoupler not 100% pulled into disengagement. The frequency of the noise seems a little too fast for spider gears. The decoupler rotates with the pinion shaft and the pinion shaft rotates at about 5 times wheel speed. Could you tell that the noise wasn't from the nose area of the tranny where the decoupler lives?
Mark |
If its the decoupler buzzing, prob can have someone put a hand on the flange. If it's that audible you should be able to feel that vibration near its source. Feel all over the trans for where it's coming from. Or use the broom-stick stethoscope method to transfer the sound to your ear-bone. Or since you're under the car, maybe a long screwdriver. _________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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