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pete000
Samba Member
Joined: July 29, 2004
Posts: 642
Location: Ocala FL
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 Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 6:42 pm Post subject: Just installed a set of 2WD Burley upper control arms |
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I am hoping to get a bit more positive camber on my lowered Vanagon. I have been burning off the inside edges of my tires way too fast !. These arms seem to be set to the stock camber, but with the threaded Heim links I should be able to put some more neg in.
Only complaint with the arms is the upper ball joint screws are really hard to put in due to the bracing not allowing the Allen wrench to go directly on the cap screws, this was by far the hardest part of the install.
Haven't tried them out yet, I will report more later...
_________________
1990 Vanagon RS 2.1
1967 Deluxe 21 window
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Koni Shocks
H & R Red Springs
Addco Sway Bars Front-Rear
18 X 7.5 and 18 X 8 OEM Porsche Wheels
Recaro Power-Heated seats
Last edited by pete000 on Wed Jul 21, 2010 2:12 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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insyncro
Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15086
Location: New York
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| Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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Looks good.
Let us know how they ride. |
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Alaric.H
Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2009
Posts: 2529
Location: Sandy Springs GA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 4:31 am Post subject: |
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| Looks to pretty to drive. |
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tozovr
Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2009
Posts: 547
Location: York, ME
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| Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 4:56 am Post subject: |
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Nice setup, but here in New England I'd be very hesitant to run heims. Does he offer a non-Heim setup as well?
_________________
...like a young Julie Andrews all whacked out on PCP, kinda fun but kinda scary too
'83 1.6TD
DX 5 Speed
"Whistler"
www.sinisterbikes.com |
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CTB
Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2010
Posts: 152
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| Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 5:11 am Post subject: |
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Definitely post back when you have some drive impressions. I just learned of these arms yesterday, but since I live in an area with the worst roads in the country, I think the Heims might be a little too stiff for here. It would be nice to get rid of the bushing squeak, tho.
FWIW, if you are burning the inside edges of your tires, you already have too much negative camber, so you don't want to "put some more neg in," as you wrote. You want to make the camber more positive, i.e. stand the wheel up more/take some neg out.
Also, in case you haven't checked it, incorrect toe will fry the inside or outside of a tire even faster than camber will, so make sure you have your toe properly set as well. I've run heavy neg camber on cars for years without too much adverse wear, but incorrect toe will smoke a tire in a very short time.
Good luck! Looking forward to your impressions. |
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Alaric.H
Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2009
Posts: 2529
Location: Sandy Springs GA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 5:58 am Post subject: |
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I have had heim joints on my van for a few years now and the are no corrosion problems I drive in the salty snow and the salty beaches FL and Cape Cod and Hwy 1 but they kind of frown on driving on the beach on most of the west coast as I found out. I do not see how they could be to stiff they seem smooth as butter. I guess you could put these on they look like little heim joint condoms. Heim joints are self cleaning as well.
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tozovr
Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2009
Posts: 547
Location: York, ME
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| Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 6:12 am Post subject: |
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| Alaric.H wrote: |
I have had heim joints on my van for a few years now and the are no corrosion problems I drive in the salty snow and the salty beaches FL and Cape Cod and Hwy 1 but they kind of frown on driving on the beach on most of the west coast as I found out. I do not see how they could be to stiff they seem smooth as butter. I guess you could put these on they look like little heim joint condoms. Heim joints are self cleaning as well.
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On the jeeps and rovers we have had nothing but issues with corrosion causing play in Heims over a season or two. Not a huge deal on a Track bar or even a tie rod as the joint is easy to replace, but doing it once a year gets old. No matter whos Heims we used we had issues. We've gone to the Currie Johhny-Joint and RE Superflex style joint on everything we can. Also a non issue on a Van that is garaged during the Winter months.
_________________
...like a young Julie Andrews all whacked out on PCP, kinda fun but kinda scary too
'83 1.6TD
DX 5 Speed
"Whistler"
www.sinisterbikes.com |
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Alaric.H
Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2009
Posts: 2529
Location: Sandy Springs GA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 6:55 am Post subject: |
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I wonder if they are using cheap heim joints?
http://www.discountjeepparts.com/product_info.php/cPath/459_433/products_id/16947
Or
One of these self cleaning self lubing models.
Evolution Rebuild able Heim that are 95$
I know the burly arms are not using these but something in between the two extremes and in all the years no failures.Besides all that I hate comparing Vanagons to Jeeps and Rovers.
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CTB
Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2010
Posts: 152
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| Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 7:36 am Post subject: |
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| Alaric.H wrote: |
| I do not see how they could be to stiff they seem smooth as butter. |
Heim joints have very little compliance in any direction other than the rotation around the ball. The OEM bushings in the upper control arm, on the other hand, are designed and tuned with that compliance in mind to isolate noise and vibration from the passenger compartment, as well as offering some recession to help absorb impacts. Yep, heims (when clean and lubed) are smooth as butter in the rotational direction, but they can be brutal for impact harshness and vibration transmission. That high precision of motion is great for suspension kinematics but not so good for ride quality. I'm curious as to how these arms perform, given that I drive on moonscapes when I'm in the van. Of course, I'm going deaf from the squeaking of the originals, so...
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tozovr
Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2009
Posts: 547
Location: York, ME
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| Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 7:43 am Post subject: |
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| Alaric.H wrote: |
I wonder if they are using cheap heim joints?
http://www.discountjeepparts.com/product_info.php/cPath/459_433/products_id/16947
Or
One of these self cleaning self lubing models.
Evolution Rebuild able Heim that are 95$
I know the burly arms are not using these but something in between the two extremes and in all the years no failures.Besides all that I hate comparing Vanagons to Jeeps and Rovers.
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We've never had a Heim fail, per se. They just start to clunk. When it starts to clunk, we'd replace them. Those rebuild-able units are just like the Rubicon/Currie joints. Not only rebuild-able, but you can tighten them up as they wear.
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...like a young Julie Andrews all whacked out on PCP, kinda fun but kinda scary too
'83 1.6TD
DX 5 Speed
"Whistler"
www.sinisterbikes.com |
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purplepeopleeater
Samba Member
Joined: July 23, 2005
Posts: 3117
Location: E. Washington
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| Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 8:08 am Post subject: |
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| wow, those are sexy. |
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Saguache
Samba Member
Joined: December 28, 2009
Posts: 360
Location: Gunnison, CO
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| Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 9:59 am Post subject: |
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When my Vanagon grows up its front end will look like that. Maybe a lot higher, but phat like that.
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Matt Thyer
http://zenoswagen.wordpress.com/ |
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RGS Paul
Samba Member
Joined: April 20, 2007
Posts: 663
Location: Los Alamos, NM
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| Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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Wait, if you're burning the inside edges off the tires you need less negative camber not more. Where were your alignment specs before you did the upper control arms, and were your tires cusped at all? You might have more of a lower control arm bushing problem then a camber problem.
Still they look sweet.
Paul
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'87 Syncro 7-Pass. Adventure Touring Vehicle
"Simplicate, then add lightness." Colin Chapman |
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pete000
Samba Member
Joined: July 29, 2004
Posts: 642
Location: Ocala FL
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| Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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| CTB wrote: |
Definitely post back when you have some drive impressions. I just learned of these arms yesterday, but since I live in an area with the worst roads in the country, I think the Heims might be a little too stiff for here. It would be nice to get rid of the bushing squeak, tho.
FWIW, if you are burning the inside edges of your tires, you already have too much negative camber, so you don't want to "put some more neg in," as you wrote. You want to make the camber more positive, i.e. stand the wheel up more/take some neg out.
Also, in case you haven't checked it, incorrect toe will fry the inside or outside of a tire even faster than camber will, so make sure you have your toe properly set as well. I've run heavy neg camber on cars for years without too much adverse wear, but incorrect toe will smoke a tire in a very short time.
Good luck! Looking forward to your impressions. |
I had the bus checked for tow last year and they said it was a mile off after I lowered the suspension. They said they were able to get the tow in spec. I put on a new set of tires and they died fast. The inner 3 inches are burned to the threads and the rest of the tire looks new!
I goofed when posting and did indeed mean more Positive camber (brain fart) Living in SoCal the stiffness should not be a big issue I hope.
I will get the tow rechecked and try to push in a bit more positive.
I love those rebuildable joints wow but it would cost 400 bucks to do them. I do no foul weather driving or off roading so I am hoping some general oiling will keep them going. The big reason for using this arm is to get more Positive camber to save my tires. I had the upper adjusting bolt at full positive and it is not enough when ridding this low. Hoping I can find a happy medium with this arm set up.
My lower control arms seem to be in good condition as were the upper arms, no squeaks ever and tight.
Stay posted for ride impressions.
_________________
1990 Vanagon RS 2.1
1967 Deluxe 21 window
--------------------
Koni Shocks
H & R Red Springs
Addco Sway Bars Front-Rear
18 X 7.5 and 18 X 8 OEM Porsche Wheels
Recaro Power-Heated seats |
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Homercules
Samba Member
Joined: June 04, 2010
Posts: 141
Location: Calgary
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| Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Alaric.H wrote: |
I wonder if they are using cheap heim joints?
http://www.discountjeepparts.com/product_info.php/cPath/459_433/products_id/16947
Or
One of these self cleaning self lubing models.
Evolution Rebuild able Heim that are 95$
I know the burly arms are not using these but something in between the two extremes and in all the years no failures.Besides all that I hate comparing Vanagons to Jeeps and Rovers.
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Wow! I didn't I would see these in a Volkswagen forum!
A buddy of mine make these. They are fantastic. My 4x4 truck was built up by the same manufacturer and has a dozen of these joints. They are truly indestructible. When they wear they can start to clunk around a bit but you just use an allan key and small wrench to tighten them up. Mine have hardly worn at all. I'm also using a joint that has a poly bushing in it which is far more common and probably preferable in an upper A-arm however. Also, not sure the size but I think the smallest heim they make starts at 7/8" diameter on the threads. |
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240Gordy
Samba Member
Joined: May 15, 2008
Posts: 2354
Location: Vancouver, BC
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| Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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http://www.evolutionmachine.com/
_________________
Tencentlife said,
"So, now that you know what you're doing, go to town."
2010 GOLF TRENDLINE 2.5
1985 GL now with more! a 2.1L
H&R SPORT(RED) Springs FRONT , SLAM SPECIALTIES RE6 AIRBAGS REAR |
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r39o
Samba Polizei
Joined: May 18, 2005
Posts: 9800
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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Emmm Frankenheims.......
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"Use the SEARCH, Luke" But first visit the Vanagon FAQ!
1990 Multivan EJ 22, Rancho trans 0.82 4th, Small Car front AC, CLKs w/ 215/65-16, homemade big brakes 303mm, Konis, Recaros, etc....
Click to see my ads for Cup holders, Subaru clutch fix and CLK wheels (no wheels currently) |
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pete000
Samba Member
Joined: July 29, 2004
Posts: 642
Location: Ocala FL
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| Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:48 am Post subject: |
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Put a few miles on these new ams, so far pretty nice, feels a bit more responsive and the suspension movement seems a bit more positive. Very quiet and smooth. Not very much more road vibration transfered to the cabin.
I did notice however because my bus is so low I can bottom out a bit easier now for some reason.
I have to check to see if the top of the arms are actually touching the body (frame) when fully bottomed out.
_________________
1990 Vanagon RS 2.1
1967 Deluxe 21 window
--------------------
Koni Shocks
H & R Red Springs
Addco Sway Bars Front-Rear
18 X 7.5 and 18 X 8 OEM Porsche Wheels
Recaro Power-Heated seats |
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Jon_slider
Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2007
Posts: 5091
Location: Santa Cruz, Crowdifornia
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| Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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> OEM Porsche Wheels
wow, sounds cool
(always leaves me wondering what tire people are using when they post their rims)
post a couple full Van photos for us to enjoy
congrats on the Burleys, your impressions are of interest to many
I hope you get your alignment dialed in soon, so you can enjoy the ride, instead of cha$ing gremlin$
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My Soapboxes: Inflation; Handling; Gearing; Decoupling; Swepco |
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buildyourown
Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2009
Posts: 1668
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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Are Heims DOT legal? I thought not.
I built a bigger badder tie rod and drag link for my F-350 and seem to remember many people suggesting going with an OEM rod end vs a Heim. |
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