Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts New!  See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Westfalia A/C vents & removing plenum
Page: Previous  1, 2, 3, ... 12, 13, 14  Next
Jump to:
Forum Index -> Vanagon Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Typhon2222
Samba Member


Joined: October 24, 2009
Posts: 363
Location: Berkeley, CA --> Berlin, Germany
Typhon2222 is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blah. I just took a closer look. Am I going to have to remove the side "spice rack" before I can access some bolts necessary to remove the plenum? That looks like a serious undertaking. (<----total mechanical idiot)
_________________
Basil — '88 Dove Blue Westy.


Last edited by Typhon2222 on Sun Aug 01, 2010 1:21 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Classifieds Feedback
campism
Samba Member


Joined: September 07, 2007
Posts: 3861
Location: Richmond VA
campism is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not that big a deal. Maybe three bolts at the front and two where it bolts to the closet, then lay it on the kitchen cabinet while you drop the plenum. Then reinstall the spice rack/curtain tray. All this is from memory, since I did mine a couple of years ago. Look closer; you may not have to do all that.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
EvilDNA
Samba Member


Joined: January 10, 2006
Posts: 116
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
EvilDNA is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have the Multivan, i.e. no kitchen, stove, etc. and so I'm not sure what details would be involved. On my setup, I just have to pull the perimeter screws w/ the plastic caps and the 5 screws running down through the bed. Plenum is then off.

As for 134a, by now you've probably read that you shouldn't have to be recharging your system that often. I'm sure you've been scolded about the environment too. Nonetheless, get down with the RedTek and you'll create a Win Win Win. Less Cost, Less Strain, Less AlGore Hypocrisy (if that is your bag, baby).

I don't give a rat's left fig about the 134a debate beyond the fact that the more experienced have already spoken. Higher pressure, smaller molecular composition, lower performance add up to bad mojo on these vans.

I do find it funny that so many tow the 134a line chapter and verse, all while the crap is being phased out. I assume they'll tow the new line, whatever standard that may be once legislated down from on high. Between a cow's fart and R12 . . . I'd have preferred keeping the latter.

I do favor the DuPont Patent Expiration Coincidence Theory, but I'm always a sucker for a good conspiracy.
_________________
1990 4 Speed Orly Blue Multivan
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Classifieds Feedback
Typhon2222
Samba Member


Joined: October 24, 2009
Posts: 363
Location: Berkeley, CA --> Berlin, Germany
Typhon2222 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Last night was my initiation into disassembling Westy components! I took the plunge and decided to remove the A/C plenum enclosure.

Took me hours. I'm a newb, so even figuring out simple things such as how best to pop off the screw cap covers took a while. And getting the spice rack down was a major process of discovery for me. I used the Bentley, which made it easier. But still....

The Bentley said that removing the spice rack would require first removing the support slat which runs across the leading edge of the back ceiling, spanning the width of the car. Four bolts there. Then ten screws for the spice rack alone, some in hard-to-reach places. I thought I'd be able, once yanked out, to lay the spice rack on the top of the stove cabinet. But the electrical cables for the light fixture were far too short to allow that, and I didn't know how to disengage the cables, so I had to prop the spice rack up on two very rickety stilt-like columns of tin cans which I pulled out of the manhole cupboards and stacked with one hand while balancing the spice rack in the other. And then 25 screws for the plenum itself.

It was fun, but if I ever do this again, I'll invest in some electric screwdriver. My wrists are feeling the workout this morning. Very Happy

The good news: hurricane gales indeed! Sweet gods, does that thing BLOW. Even with the A/C fan turned to just 2, I was getting substantially more air in the front than I used to get with plenum and fan cranked up to 3. Turn the fan up to 3 now, and it's like lounging in a wind tunnel. Sitting in the driver's seat, I get way more air movement from the A/C than I do from the front air vents.

I like the extra headroom too.

Also, I've had my curiosity satisfied about what those metal clips projecting forward from the face of the A/C cabinet do. They guide the cable for the rear speakers. (See pic below.)

The bad news: the now-revealed ceiling is severely blackened. Campism, I don't know how your ceiling looks so pristine. Mine is covered with ash-black residue from the enclosure (see pic), and I can't seem to scrub it off. Rubbing alcohol, at least, isn't working. Perhaps I should try some goof-off?

If that doesn't work, I guess I'll explore the wonderful world of contact paper, and just cover the whole ceiling.

And, per Campism's suggestion, some gray modelling clay or putty to fill in the receiving slot in the cabinet face.

All in all, I'm super-glad I took that thing off. The increased air flow is truly stupendous. And the wife is going to like the headroom. Very Happy

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
Basil — '88 Dove Blue Westy.


Last edited by Typhon2222 on Thu Jul 29, 2010 6:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Classifieds Feedback
VisPacem
Samba Member


Joined: July 15, 2007
Posts: 1143
Location: Las Vegas
VisPacem is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

I hate to appear ignorant d'oh! d'oh! , but what do you mean by the "plenum" ? Seems to come from the Latin giving us the word plenty Laughing or full, full of what d'oh! d'oh! besides hot air that is supposed to be cold Idea
Is that "plenum" only on Westies or any A/C equipped Vanagon ?
_________________
LG aka VisPacemPB, *The* party Pooper

No Regrets (Nothing to do with Vanagons)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Typhon2222
Samba Member


Joined: October 24, 2009
Posts: 363
Location: Berkeley, CA --> Berlin, Germany
Typhon2222 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

VisPacem wrote:
Hi

I hate to appear ignorant d'oh! d'oh! , but what do you mean by the "plenum" ? Seems to come from the Latin giving us the word plenty Laughing or full, full of what d'oh! d'oh! besides hot air that is supposed to be cold Idea
Is that "plenum" only on Westies or any A/C equipped Vanagon ?


Hi VisPacem ( means "you want peace" in Latin? Very Happy ),

My dictionary gives:
plenum |ˈplenəm; ˈplēnəm|
noun
1 an assembly of all the members of a group or committee. [ORIGIN: influenced by Russian plenum ‘plenary session.’ ]
2 Physics a space completely filled with matter, or the whole of space so regarded.
• an enclosed chamber where a treated substance collects for distribution, as heated or conditioned air through a ventilation system.
ORIGIN late 17th cent.: from Latin, literally ‘full space,’ neuter of plenus ‘full.’

Believe me, I'd never seen "plenum" used in this sense before until this thread, so I'm just copying those with a better technical vocabulary for this A/C stuff. Razz

In this case, the plenum is the large duct assembly that extends forward from the A/C cabinet to the leading edge of the rear ceiling, intended — I suppose — to help the air reach further forward. But, as we've discovered, it seems to obstruct air flow far more than it channels it....

It's found only on Westies, and only on models from 1987 onwards (i.e., it was introduced when Westfalia changed the interiors from brown to gray).
_________________
Basil — '88 Dove Blue Westy.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Classifieds Feedback
VisPacem
Samba Member


Joined: July 15, 2007
Posts: 1143
Location: Las Vegas
VisPacem is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you very much learned and esteemed professor Very Happy Very Happy

I guess the natives are getting restless in the suburbs, and we'll switch to Ave Magister instead of just howdy pilgrim.

Anyway , yes indeed I want peace so I para bellum Embarassed Embarassed

Anyway to return to the "plenum" ego sum confusius maximus, not Confucius mind you when you say:

>> the large duct assembly that extends forward from the A/C cabinet to the leading edge of the rear ceiling, intended — I suppose — to help the air reach further forward. <<<


Perhaps a charitable soul will post a picture of this (to me) mysterious "plenum"

All I see on the pictures already posted is a box, an enclosure, a container of some sort, is that the famous plenum or is that plenum inside the good old box ?

If it's the box why call it a plenum ? Boo hoo! Boo hoo! Boo hoo!

porca miseria Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

accidente Laughing Laughing

quelle m...e Dancing Dancing

gross s......e Shhh Shhh
_________________
LG aka VisPacemPB, *The* party Pooper

No Regrets (Nothing to do with Vanagons)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
kamzcab86
Samba Moderator


Joined: July 26, 2008
Posts: 7003
Location: Arizona
kamzcab86 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

VisPacem wrote:

Perhaps a charitable soul will post a picture of this (to me) mysterious "plenum"


It's this big and, apparently, virtually useless thing:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I need to stop reading all of these threads... you guys keep adding projects to my To-Do List!! Not talking Laughing

Does anyone happen to have a picture of what the inside of this plenum looks like??
_________________
~Kamz Anxious
1986 Cabriolet: www.Cabby-Info.com
Blue Vanagon 1990 Vanagon Westfalia: Old Blue's Blog
2016 Golf GTI S
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction; the world will have a generation of idiots." ~Albert Einstein
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
EvilDNA
Samba Member


Joined: January 10, 2006
Posts: 116
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
EvilDNA is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I used the word plenum basically from HVAC vernacular. I could be mis-applying that word but oh well.

I have to chuckle about the plenum/duct removal by hand. When I was taking mine down for the A/C rehab my dad and I marveled at how 20 years ago, all poor souls were doing it all by hand. I love my Bosh screw gun.

Now I'm tempted to take that blasted thing back down. The dark discolored mess is the cremated remains of that foam filter that was once wrapped around the evaporator. May she rest in peace.

A complete A/C rehab will have you blowing out the disintegrated foam remains from the evaporator. TK's idea about putting a foam filter in the back panel is a good one for keeping a newly cleaned evap coil clean.

As TK says, Ace is the Place.
_________________
1990 4 Speed Orly Blue Multivan
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Classifieds Feedback
campism
Samba Member


Joined: September 07, 2007
Posts: 3861
Location: Richmond VA
campism is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plenum applies to this and to other automotive applications. V8 intake manifolds, for example, sometimes have a large open space under the carb that opens into individual runners to the heads and that is also a plenum.

I removed all the fasteners in my Westy interior removal by hand and I'm still not over that.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Typhon2222
Samba Member


Joined: October 24, 2009
Posts: 363
Location: Berkeley, CA --> Berlin, Germany
Typhon2222 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kamzcab86 wrote:
I need to stop reading all of these threads... you guys keep adding projects to my To-Do List!! Not talking Laughing

Razz Twisted Evil Razz


Quote:
Does anyone happen to have a picture of what the inside of this plenum looks like??


BackCountryMedic has a full series of shots of the A/C cabinet in this post, including one of the inside of the plenum/duct assembly — it's the last pic in the series. Note that his pic shows it with the foam baffles he custom-installed to channel the air through it more effectively. Looks very nice. (Though to be honest, having just removed the plenum and feeling the difference in air flow, I can't imagine that adding baffles would be any better than just getting rid of the dratted thing entirely.)
_________________
Basil — '88 Dove Blue Westy.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Classifieds Feedback
campism
Samba Member


Joined: September 07, 2007
Posts: 3861
Location: Richmond VA
campism is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

THAT'S the one I knew I'd seen but could not find. I searched every A/C thread and search term I thought would work. Thanks!

Man, I even posted in it. Jeez, my mind is going.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Typhon2222
Samba Member


Joined: October 24, 2009
Posts: 363
Location: Berkeley, CA --> Berlin, Germany
Typhon2222 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

campism wrote:
THAT'S the one I knew I'd seen but could not find. I searched every A/C thread and search term I thought would work. Thanks!


Oh awesome, glad to help. It was actually your mention of that thread earlier that led me to search for it. Laughing
_________________
Basil — '88 Dove Blue Westy.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Classifieds Feedback
Typhon2222
Samba Member


Joined: October 24, 2009
Posts: 363
Location: Berkeley, CA --> Berlin, Germany
Typhon2222 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So the contact paper is up! It covers up the obnoxious black stains and yawning screw holes well. Here are the before and after pics.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Originally I had hoped to find some matte gray contact paper. But after trips to Home Depot, Orchard Supply Hardware, and Ace, the best I could find was this metallic "stainless steel" color. It's definitely reflective, and it bothered me at first. But it's grown on me. I kind of like being able to see the A/C cabinet and rest of the car's interior mirror-imaged on the ceiling. And like a mirrored wall in a cramped restaurant, it seems to open up the space, making it feel more spacious.

I also bought some putty to fill in the slot running across the face of the A/C cabinet. But it's not gray enough, so I'll have to find something else.
_________________
Basil — '88 Dove Blue Westy.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Classifieds Feedback
EvilDNA
Samba Member


Joined: January 10, 2006
Posts: 116
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
EvilDNA is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Typhoon - You sir are a man on a mission. I'm being swayed to pull mine back off without trying the whole 12v fan option.

I do believe I'll try to fashion some sort of custom face plate bevel thingy to cover the vent and plenum grooves and speaker wire. You can also just run the wire from behind and under the blower vent.

Very Cool . . . pun intended.
_________________
1990 4 Speed Orly Blue Multivan
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Classifieds Feedback
Typhon2222
Samba Member


Joined: October 24, 2009
Posts: 363
Location: Berkeley, CA --> Berlin, Germany
Typhon2222 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EvilDNA wrote:
The dark discolored mess is the cremated remains of that foam filter that was once wrapped around the evaporator. May she rest in peace.

"Cremated remains of that foam filter". Love the wording. One of those phrases one is guaranteed to only hear once in a lifetime. Razz
_________________
Basil — '88 Dove Blue Westy.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Classifieds Feedback
Typhon2222
Samba Member


Joined: October 24, 2009
Posts: 363
Location: Berkeley, CA --> Berlin, Germany
Typhon2222 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EvilDNA wrote:
I'm being swayed to pull mine back off without trying the whole 12v fan option.

Do it! You know you'll be glad you did. Very Happy

And by the way, a huge thank-you to Campism and you. Without your example and comments, I would never even have considered getting rid of that thing in the first place.

Quote:
I do believe I'll try to fashion some sort of custom face plate bevel thingy to cover the vent and plenum grooves and speaker wire. You can also just run the wire from behind and under the blower vent.

Oooh nice. You WILL post pics, yeah? Pray
_________________
Basil — '88 Dove Blue Westy.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Classifieds Feedback
kamzcab86
Samba Moderator


Joined: July 26, 2008
Posts: 7003
Location: Arizona
kamzcab86 is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Typhon2222 wrote:


BackCountryMedic has a full series of shots of the A/C cabinet in this post, including one of the inside of the plenum/duct assembly — it's the last pic in the series.


Perfect; thank you!

That thing really was poorly designed. If nothing else, it should've been about half the length it is.

When it cools off around here, I'll be removing that plenum, be it permanently or for modification. Cool
_________________
~Kamz Anxious
1986 Cabriolet: www.Cabby-Info.com
Blue Vanagon 1990 Vanagon Westfalia: Old Blue's Blog
2016 Golf GTI S
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction; the world will have a generation of idiots." ~Albert Einstein
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
EvilDNA
Samba Member


Joined: January 10, 2006
Posts: 116
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
EvilDNA is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I dropped my Plenum/Duct and took the van out for a good drive. Safe to say . . . its staying off. Man that is some serious airflow. Now, I'll just have to come up with a faceplate that can cover/fit in the groove and also take a vent register or something to protect kiddie fingers. It's a must do after a good A/C rehab for sure.
_________________
1990 4 Speed Orly Blue Multivan
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Classifieds Feedback
Typhon2222
Samba Member


Joined: October 24, 2009
Posts: 363
Location: Berkeley, CA --> Berlin, Germany
Typhon2222 is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kamzcab86 wrote:
When it cools off around here, I'll be removing that plenum, be it permanently or for modification. Cool

Awesome! Though I'll only believe it when I see it added under the "Project List" of your (really gorgeous and impressive) blog. Razz
_________________
Basil — '88 Dove Blue Westy.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Vanagon All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: Previous  1, 2, 3, ... 12, 13, 14  Next
Jump to:
Page 2 of 14

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2020, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB