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1958 Coral Red Beetle Question
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Bart Dunn
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Beez78 wrote:
How can you tell if you have repro bumpers or not? I wonder if mine are original or not. They are pretty thick and have a few dings here and there. I didnt pay a museum quality price for the thing, but I have definitely found some holes in the original story as I have come to be more familiar with my '64. Mine was also supposed to have 62K OG miles, but could be 162K for all I know....still fun to drive and looks awesome and makes me happy every time I get in it....until the day the engine blows up I guess.


I don't know what was spotted on this car, but a usual giveaway on the repro bumpers, at least the cheapo ones, is a black gasket between the bumper and the overrider bar, or bad gaps between the bumper and the overrider bar. Nice original bumpers have a good tight fit there with no gasket. Also, in person, you can tell that the metal on a lot of repro's is pretty thin and the chrome is cheap.
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hitest
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Peter is likely to have a pretty good bead on all things original vs. aftermarket on the car. If the oval had a few garage mishaps during, say the 70s- the only reliable source for replacement bumpers and fenders was the dealership- hence OEM VW replacement parts on the car. Now, 30 years after the mishap- the bumpers will have aged almost to the point of the remaining OG parts. Younger folks in the scene never walked into a dealership for AC parts- and aftermarket is all they know. Sad, but true. The Brazilian fenders, however, are inexcusable.

Nothing wrong in my opinion of replacing parts- to maintain as original or correct car as can be- but claiming something as museum quality is nothing I want my reputation tied to- and I hope you don't take it lightly Peter.
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Black58EuroBug
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it would have to be one heck of a garage mishap to have fenders replaced instead of repaired.
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duginabug
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a bumper I have in the classifieds (not trying to make a shameless plug here).

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The bumper blade is a West Coast Metric reproduction and the chrome is super nice. The bumper guards are reproductions as well (don't know by who) and the over riders are German. It's actually a real nice looking bumper.

It doesn't have the black plastic inserts and everything fits together nicely so at first glance you wouldn't really know it was not OG.

The only way to tell is look for the VW stamp in the center of the blade that looks like this. The VW logo is faint but it's there between the 3 and 5.
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bsvwoc
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 7:17 pm    Post subject: 1958 beetle Reply with quote

I am not sure this will ruin my reputation, My only concern is this car gets a good home. It's up to the buyer to determine value, I am only there to help them make there decision.
I my opinion a few years from now we would all be willing to by the car at the asking price of 15K if it were offered for sale.
Now if I offered the car for sale, as a Vintage VW owner would you feel better about the sale?
This guy obviously doesn't know what he has, good or bad. As with anything it's always "buyer beware" that is why I am involved. I wish I had the same advise when I bought my '58 beetle.
I know when the day comes and I find my next project, a 1958 Lowlight Ghia my friends on the Samba will look out for me....

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Bart Dunn
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 8:25 pm    Post subject: Re: 1958 beetle Reply with quote

bsvwoc wrote:
I am not sure this will ruin my reputation, My only concern is this car gets a good home.


Yes, that's a little extreme. That being said, the car is appearing to come with the endorsement of a vintage VW enthusiast who by his own account hasn't reviewed any of the documents or other bona fides, and who is suggesting that the $15K asking price isn't all that unreasonable when there are others with as much knowledge who think that price is very, very high. Given the very high price being asked for the car and the huge premium represented by the seller's claim that this is a low-mileage and well preserved car, that's where it's getting problematic.

Good documentation will show consistent and regular service intervals with mileage recorded, family photos, title transfer records, the original engine # from the original paperwork, etc. There won't be big gaps in the documented history of the car. If, say, there are gaps in the service records from 1960 to 1970, it's still gonna be a big pile of records and just about anything could have happened in that 10 year span, including spinning the odometer over, engine replacement, accidents, etc.

Given that the car clearly isn't 100% all original, the documentation is all the more important.

It's a low price compared to restoration costs, true. That's still comparing apples to oranges. That's not a legitimate analysis. Saying that it's a lot less than restoring a car is just rationalization for being gouged on the price. A restored car is essentially a hand-built brand new car with gazillions of man hours in it and isn't the same thing.

That being said, there are plenty of people with the kind of money it takes to buy an overpriced and relatively nice example of a late 50's car, who won't mind the "overpriced" aspect of it. There's an ass for every seat... but the buyer should know that he's not getting a deal, that the car's provenance is (or is not) documented, etc.

So review the documentation already. If you can post up some of those details, I think you'll shut up the critics and demonstrate conclusively whether this car is worth anything close to what the seller is asking.
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bsvwoc
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 12:25 pm    Post subject: 1958 Coral Red Beetle Reply with quote

A little more info from the current owner. Finally a few original literature items. A service book which ends at the 13, 500 service, but does not say when that was? Also an owners id card from there insurance agency. Finally a photo of the original owners.
I may have some more info soon from another previous owner...
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Black58EuroBug
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I particularly like that it's a "tudor sedan". Very Happy
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AlteWagen
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

looks like it has the 55 and earlier hood prop in that pic, what is up with that?
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 10:39 am    Post subject: Re: 1958 Coral Red Beetle Reply with quote

bsvwoc wrote:
A little more info from the current owner. Finally a few original literature items. A service book which ends at the 13, 500 service, but does not say when that was? Also an owners id card from there insurance agency. Finally a photo of the original owners.
I may have some more info soon from another previous owner...


I would like to know what kind of damage the Car suffered to warrant the changing of the front fenders, running boards and rear bumper? What a bummer that there is no "Date" for the 13,500 service.... Sad
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi...6019#v4-37


That pan looks pretty rusty underneath. I see more and more stuff I don't like about this car.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I saw that yesterday, you can even see the over spray from the repaint on the jack stand on the passenger side. I wonder if the rear fenders were also replaced with aftermarket crap.

This whole deal just reinforces the used car salesman stereotype, jerk offs!
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

6Kabrio7 wrote:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi...6019#v4-37
That pan looks pretty rusty underneath. I see more and more stuff I don't like about this car.



I had asked the seller about the location of the front turn signals, as they are not correct for a 58 but for a 64-66? He never responded back?
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Didn't anyone else see this car a few months back on craigslist and ebay? The last owners were asking 15k then 13,500 and had no luck. They must have sold it for around 12k if that is what the wholesaler has in it. My guess is it's an older refesh of a good solid car. 10k sounds like the price to me.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The bid ended at $8,222 and I think that about nailed it on value.

I agree with everything stated especially the level and depth of the pan rust. It's an $8,000 car at the end of the day. I think the pic with the two guys standing beside it is when the car was "restored" at some point in it's life.

Just my humble opinion by the way, I'm no expert Smile
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

56OvalRHD wrote:
The bid ended at $8,222 and I think that about nailed it on value.
I agree with everything stated especially the level and depth of the pan rust. It's an $8,000 car at the end of the day.


Yep.... Very Happy
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I am glad no one severely overpaid for it..Lets hope there isn't a bunch of hidden bondo or fiberglass in that car too.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was reserve not met so no sale yet...
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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is that the correct fuel tank for that car?
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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sixty7bugin wrote:
Is that the correct fuel tank for that car?


That tank is from an early 56 ghia or oval, so no it is not correct for that car.
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