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Bart Dunn Samba Consiglieri
Joined: May 09, 2004 Posts: 2354 Location: Sea level (Mid Atlantic)
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Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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Beez78 wrote: |
How can you tell if you have repro bumpers or not? I wonder if mine are original or not. They are pretty thick and have a few dings here and there. I didnt pay a museum quality price for the thing, but I have definitely found some holes in the original story as I have come to be more familiar with my '64. Mine was also supposed to have 62K OG miles, but could be 162K for all I know....still fun to drive and looks awesome and makes me happy every time I get in it....until the day the engine blows up I guess. |
I don't know what was spotted on this car, but a usual giveaway on the repro bumpers, at least the cheapo ones, is a black gasket between the bumper and the overrider bar, or bad gaps between the bumper and the overrider bar. Nice original bumpers have a good tight fit there with no gasket. Also, in person, you can tell that the metal on a lot of repro's is pretty thin and the chrome is cheap. _________________ Not enough car seats fit into my:
'58 Beetle convertible
'58 Beetle sedan |
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hitest Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2008 Posts: 10296 Location: Prime Meridian, ID
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Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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I think Peter is likely to have a pretty good bead on all things original vs. aftermarket on the car. If the oval had a few garage mishaps during, say the 70s- the only reliable source for replacement bumpers and fenders was the dealership- hence OEM VW replacement parts on the car. Now, 30 years after the mishap- the bumpers will have aged almost to the point of the remaining OG parts. Younger folks in the scene never walked into a dealership for AC parts- and aftermarket is all they know. Sad, but true. The Brazilian fenders, however, are inexcusable.
Nothing wrong in my opinion of replacing parts- to maintain as original or correct car as can be- but claiming something as museum quality is nothing I want my reputation tied to- and I hope you don't take it lightly Peter. _________________
EverettB wrote: |
I wonder what the nut looks like.
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'62 L390 151, '62 L469 117, '63 L380 113, '64 L87 311, '65 L512 265, '65 L31 SO-42, '66 L360 251, '68 L30k 141, '71 L12 113, '74 ORG 181
FU#5 |
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Black58EuroBug Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2004 Posts: 180 Location: 8,500 feet high in Nederland, Colorado
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Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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I think it would have to be one heck of a garage mishap to have fenders replaced instead of repaired. _________________ Kimberly
9/9/57 European Beetle L41 "Schnitzel" |
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duginabug Samba Member
Joined: June 06, 2007 Posts: 481 Location: Washington State
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Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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This is a bumper I have in the classifieds (not trying to make a shameless plug here).
The bumper blade is a West Coast Metric reproduction and the chrome is super nice. The bumper guards are reproductions as well (don't know by who) and the over riders are German. It's actually a real nice looking bumper.
It doesn't have the black plastic inserts and everything fits together nicely so at first glance you wouldn't really know it was not OG.
The only way to tell is look for the VW stamp in the center of the blade that looks like this. The VW logo is faint but it's there between the 3 and 5.
_________________ 1960 Sedan. L349 Jade Green. |
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bsvwoc Samba Member
Joined: July 26, 2001 Posts: 217
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Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 7:17 pm Post subject: 1958 beetle |
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I am not sure this will ruin my reputation, My only concern is this car gets a good home. It's up to the buyer to determine value, I am only there to help them make there decision.
I my opinion a few years from now we would all be willing to by the car at the asking price of 15K if it were offered for sale.
Now if I offered the car for sale, as a Vintage VW owner would you feel better about the sale?
This guy obviously doesn't know what he has, good or bad. As with anything it's always "buyer beware" that is why I am involved. I wish I had the same advise when I bought my '58 beetle.
I know when the day comes and I find my next project, a 1958 Lowlight Ghia my friends on the Samba will look out for me....
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Bart Dunn Samba Consiglieri
Joined: May 09, 2004 Posts: 2354 Location: Sea level (Mid Atlantic)
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Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 8:25 pm Post subject: Re: 1958 beetle |
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bsvwoc wrote: |
I am not sure this will ruin my reputation, My only concern is this car gets a good home. |
Yes, that's a little extreme. That being said, the car is appearing to come with the endorsement of a vintage VW enthusiast who by his own account hasn't reviewed any of the documents or other bona fides, and who is suggesting that the $15K asking price isn't all that unreasonable when there are others with as much knowledge who think that price is very, very high. Given the very high price being asked for the car and the huge premium represented by the seller's claim that this is a low-mileage and well preserved car, that's where it's getting problematic.
Good documentation will show consistent and regular service intervals with mileage recorded, family photos, title transfer records, the original engine # from the original paperwork, etc. There won't be big gaps in the documented history of the car. If, say, there are gaps in the service records from 1960 to 1970, it's still gonna be a big pile of records and just about anything could have happened in that 10 year span, including spinning the odometer over, engine replacement, accidents, etc.
Given that the car clearly isn't 100% all original, the documentation is all the more important.
It's a low price compared to restoration costs, true. That's still comparing apples to oranges. That's not a legitimate analysis. Saying that it's a lot less than restoring a car is just rationalization for being gouged on the price. A restored car is essentially a hand-built brand new car with gazillions of man hours in it and isn't the same thing.
That being said, there are plenty of people with the kind of money it takes to buy an overpriced and relatively nice example of a late 50's car, who won't mind the "overpriced" aspect of it. There's an ass for every seat... but the buyer should know that he's not getting a deal, that the car's provenance is (or is not) documented, etc.
So review the documentation already. If you can post up some of those details, I think you'll shut up the critics and demonstrate conclusively whether this car is worth anything close to what the seller is asking. _________________ Not enough car seats fit into my:
'58 Beetle convertible
'58 Beetle sedan |
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bsvwoc Samba Member
Joined: July 26, 2001 Posts: 217
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Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 12:25 pm Post subject: 1958 Coral Red Beetle |
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A little more info from the current owner. Finally a few original literature items. A service book which ends at the 13, 500 service, but does not say when that was? Also an owners id card from there insurance agency. Finally a photo of the original owners.
I may have some more info soon from another previous owner...
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Black58EuroBug Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2004 Posts: 180 Location: 8,500 feet high in Nederland, Colorado
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Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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I particularly like that it's a "tudor sedan". _________________ Kimberly
9/9/57 European Beetle L41 "Schnitzel" |
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AlteWagen Troll
Joined: February 23, 2007 Posts: 8498 Location: PNW
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Agave58 Samba Member
Joined: March 14, 2008 Posts: 1190 Location: Central California
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Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 10:39 am Post subject: Re: 1958 Coral Red Beetle |
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bsvwoc wrote: |
A little more info from the current owner. Finally a few original literature items. A service book which ends at the 13, 500 service, but does not say when that was? Also an owners id card from there insurance agency. Finally a photo of the original owners.
I may have some more info soon from another previous owner...
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I would like to know what kind of damage the Car suffered to warrant the changing of the front fenders, running boards and rear bumper? What a bummer that there is no "Date" for the 13,500 service.... _________________ 1958 Agave Beetle (0\_!_/0)
Stateside Motors Inc
501 Foote Ave
Jamestown, New York 14701
Stateside Imported Cars/Motors Items Wanted
Sunland Motors
2030 Fremont St Las Vegas, Nevada
Sunland Motors Items Wanted |
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6Kabrio7 Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2006 Posts: 2387 Location: California
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AlteWagen Troll
Joined: February 23, 2007 Posts: 8498 Location: PNW
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Agave58 Samba Member
Joined: March 14, 2008 Posts: 1190 Location: Central California
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Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 11:40 am Post subject: |
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I had asked the seller about the location of the front turn signals, as they are not correct for a 58 but for a 64-66? He never responded back? _________________ 1958 Agave Beetle (0\_!_/0)
Stateside Motors Inc
501 Foote Ave
Jamestown, New York 14701
Stateside Imported Cars/Motors Items Wanted
Sunland Motors
2030 Fremont St Las Vegas, Nevada
Sunland Motors Items Wanted |
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1-4-3-2 Samba Member
Joined: May 01, 2006 Posts: 104 Location: Rhode Island
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ProjectX Accessory Nut
Joined: May 01, 2006 Posts: 1014
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Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 8:04 am Post subject: |
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The bid ended at $8,222 and I think that about nailed it on value.
I agree with everything stated especially the level and depth of the pan rust. It's an $8,000 car at the end of the day. I think the pic with the two guys standing beside it is when the car was "restored" at some point in it's life.
Just my humble opinion by the way, I'm no expert _________________ Even my nuts are plated.....
195? Project "X"
1954 Oval Convertible |
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Agave58 Samba Member
Joined: March 14, 2008 Posts: 1190 Location: Central California
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Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 9:07 am Post subject: |
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56OvalRHD wrote: |
The bid ended at $8,222 and I think that about nailed it on value.
I agree with everything stated especially the level and depth of the pan rust. It's an $8,000 car at the end of the day. |
Yep.... _________________ 1958 Agave Beetle (0\_!_/0)
Stateside Motors Inc
501 Foote Ave
Jamestown, New York 14701
Stateside Imported Cars/Motors Items Wanted
Sunland Motors
2030 Fremont St Las Vegas, Nevada
Sunland Motors Items Wanted |
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6Kabrio7 Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2006 Posts: 2387 Location: California
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Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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Well I am glad no one severely overpaid for it..Lets hope there isn't a bunch of hidden bondo or fiberglass in that car too. _________________ 67 Convertible July 67 Yukon Yellow
67 Sedan May 67 Zenith blue |
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EverettB Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000 Posts: 69734 Location: Phoenix Metro
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Dustin B Samba Member
Joined: March 29, 2007 Posts: 1017 Location: hesperia, Ca USA
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Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 12:27 am Post subject: |
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Is that the correct fuel tank for that car? _________________ Wanted Victoria motors licence plate frame.
62 og paint L469 type 1
61 og paint L31 DD panel type 2
64 heilite viscount tent trailer
71 sears clamshell trailer
I <3 Brazilian busses
Original paint and patina extravaganza http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=187156 |
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AlteWagen Troll
Joined: February 23, 2007 Posts: 8498 Location: PNW
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