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HELP!! Exhaust system install problem...
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sc-surfer
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 8:18 pm    Post subject: HELP!! Exhaust system install problem... Reply with quote

I can't seem to get a seal between the front header pipe and the collector or elbow. I have tightened the bolts as much as I can but still get a leak in the middle. Anyone have any ideas?? I'm stuck until I can figure out a fix.

Thanks!!!!
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tikibus
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SC,

Front of the Header? talkin' #2 or #3? 2.1L or 1.9L? Basically the same but...

Worst case is the studs/bolts are stripped and then, Heliocoils or retapping the heads.

For this, Use the Search. Where's Luke?
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Rhinoculips
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just installed a whole new exhaust on my '89 Westy a couple of weeks ago and had similar difficulties. With everything in place, I loosened all nuts and bolts from the heads to the catalytic converter. This kept everything roughly where they are supposed to be and gave enough slack for me to torque the "Y" elbow to the headers with a good seal. Next, I tightened the headers to the heads before tightening the "J" pipe to the Cat. and the Y elbow.

Other things -

Did you make sure that the mating surfaces were flat. I had to carefully smooth mine out a little with a file. Be careful doing this though, no powertools and keep the file flat!

Maybe a different, new gasket is needed.

Hope this helps. Let us know how you make out.

Ryan
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sc-surfer
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the reply...

Where the header meets the heads, they seal fine. The leak is at the other end of the header at the collector. The collector is where the two headers and the back end of the exhaust system meet. It is basically 2 flanges held together by two bolts with a gasket in between. Seems that the gasket just wont fill the entire space. Does that make sense?? Could I use double gaskets??

Thanks for any additional feedback!
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Rhinoculips
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are talking about where the front and rear headers meet at the Y shaped elbow, correct? If so, try what I described above. Loosening all the bolts gave me enough slack to get the headers aligned enough with the Y elbow. Then torquing the headers to the heads, then the J pipe that goes from the Y elbow to the Cat. I did this and everything sealed fine.

Using a ratcheting strap rapped around the header and something else might help to bring them into more alignment.

Ryan
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sc-surfer
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks...

To dark to try tonight but I'll try in the morning.

I'll let you know.
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CF
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
For this, Use the Search. Where's Luke?


he is out camping Very Happy Very Happy


you will need to readjust from the j pipe to the tail pipe.
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bucko
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 6:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Remove the exhaust and use a file (or flat grinder) to make ALL flat mating surfaces FLAT. The Header flange that connects to the engine head does warp from heat, and your situation sounds like this is the case. If you have a flat piece of metal, place the flat surface on it, and use some feeler gauges to see if you can slide them between the exhaust flange and flat surface. I'll bet there is a significant gap.
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Terry Kay
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's another situation where an oxy / acetelyne torch would be a big help in sealing the mated joints at the y-pipe.

I had one Van I was working on the replacing the exhaust system that I ground, filed, sanded, and layed the ends of the mating area's on a sheet of glass to be sure that they were perfect--

For the life of me couldn't get one small area on the bottom of the rear flange to seal--it had a small leak.

Finally in an act of desperation, I heated up the bottom of that flange with the torch--and gave it a wack with a ball pien hammer--"poof" it was sealed up perfect.

I think all is not alway's perfectly flat at those flanges, and a re-alignment process is what's going to be needed to get the job done.

But--here's another situation where your going to need an adequate heat source to get the job done right.

Double gaskets will blow out.
Permatex silicone won't work either--it'll heat up and blow outa the mating surface also.

A torch is the bes investment for exhaust work.
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Terry Kay
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's another situation where an oxy / acetelyne torch would be a big help in sealing the mated joints at the y-pipe.

I had one Van I was working on the replacing the exhaust system that I ground, filed, sanded, and layed the ends of the mating area's on a sheet of glass to be sure that they were perfect--

For the life of me couldn't get one small area on the bottom of the rear flange to seal--it had a small leak.

Finally in an act of desperation, I heated up the bottom of that flange with the torch--and gave it a wack with a ball pien hammer--"poof" it was sealed up perfect.

I think all is not alway's perfectly flat at those flanges, and a re-alignment process is what's going to be needed to get the job done.

But--here's another situation where your going to need an adequate heat source to get the job done right.

Double gaskets will blow out.
Permatex silicone won't work either--it'll heat up and blow outa the mating surface also.

A torch is the bes investment for exhaust work.
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tencentlife
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A torch is always nice to have for exhaust work. You could bolt up the flanges and heat the runner red hot nearby, then tighten while the runner is hot and the flange would be able to bend the tiny bit to fit flat.

But most weekend mechanics don't have torches around so there are other methods that can help.

First, I agree with TK: Permatex and any gooey sealants don't help at all with exhausts. They brag a lot on the package, but the sealing goo that can actually stand up to exhaust heat may be available at NASA, but it isn't on the shelf at your FLAPS.

But I disagree with TK about the double gaskets; they work pretty well in cases such as this, and I've yet to have one burn thru. You have to start with a good quality metal and fiber sandwich gasket, though. I think plain compressible metal ones would burn thru; it's the fiber packing that prevents that.

If you have a belt sander with a coarse belt you can resurface the pipe flange, getting it completely flat again, and even sand some tilt into it if that's what it akes to make it parallel with the flange it has to mate to. Just getting the flange flat again usually does the trick, though. The ears on opposing flanges slowly get bent towards each other by the bolt tension and the heat, so when you do a reassembly the ears meet up before there is sufficient compression on your gasket.
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Dogpilot
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally, I have had excellent luck with the belt sander technique. It will flatten up the surface quickly and you can as 10¢ said fix angular differences. It is also the way the folks at S&S Headers recommend to make up any angular difference. It is also a common tool, we all either own one or know someone who does.
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camerahunter
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, which way do the metal and fiber gaskets get mounted on the collector?
I need to do mine tomorrow but I don't see anywhere that says which way to mount them.

Thank you,

David
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syncrodoka
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you are asking about the head to manifold flange gaskets, the metal side goes to the head.
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camerahunter
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That could be what it's called. It's the piece where there are two connections on one pipe that connects to two pipes.

Thank you,

David
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Terry Kay
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Put the meatl side the the J pipe or the pipe union.
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insyncro
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

2400 degree Loctite Flange Sealant is what I use.
I get it from McMaster Carr or straight from Loctite.
Not cheap stuff at Wally, this is about $45 a tube.
This product is used to seal cast iron stream fittings and is designed to be used under intense pressure and heat.
Even after 5 years of service I still have had to separate the exhaust parts with a chiesel.

I have used this product to seal most of the external mating surfaces on the waterboxer with excellent success.

If you use it, let it cure for 24 hours after applying it.
A little goes a long way.

dylan
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