Brake drum drag on rear after new drums, shoes...the works..

[1975 Kombi]

I don't think the spacers are available from VW anymore. I checked VW and they're obsolete so I hope the aftermarket ones are quality if made.
_________________
Brett

“He’s decieving you boy! Reach into his pocket and take what he’s got.” Mr. Crabbs.

75 Westy auto
03 Jetta TDI
71 SB
74 Westy
Licensed pilot (single engine land VFR)
--
Rust In Pieces: 72 Bug, 73 Bug, 81 Rabbit LS D 2D, 83 Rabbit D 2D, 84 Jetta TD GL, 85 Jetta D, 68 Z28 RS 302, 91 Passat 16v

[SGKent]

old thread but here is the answer: the genuine backing plates sold today have tabs that sit higher than the old ones. You can grind the backing plate or the drums. The correct solution is to replace the axle spacers inside the hub which VW made longer to go with those new backing plates. I am posting this because I found that out after dealing with the same issue. Bentley mentions that the newer spacers are longer by .060 or so but they don't mention that VW also changed the depth of the backing plates about 1979 - 1980 or so by the same amount.

[Jtast17]

Well, its fixed and on the road...noise free as well. Fully adjusted with an (now) awesome parking brake too! The adjustments weren't bad after figuring the contact problem with the backing plate and drum.

As I mentioned, I noticed a fine metallic dust in the lip between where the outer portion of the drum sits and the inner portion reside...I took my grinding wheel after just the very lip of the inner backing plate retaining lip (not much at all) around its circumference on both sides.

Also, added a small amount of grease in between the outer lip and inner lip of the drum (no where near shoe contact of course) to help quiet things and quicken any "machining" that may still be happening. It was ALOT better when I reinstalled the drums and wheels ...with the drivers side now matching pretty close to the "rub" the p side was making...and less "drag" with those surfaces contacting each other.

To my suprise once the brakes were readjusted and the e brake done as well...took it out for a test drive and the noise was completely gone by the time I got to the end of my road and I really didn't hear it again.

Finally!

Inspection tomorrow...heading out to PA on Thursday!
I appreciate all the help. I did search...turned up a few things but not a whole lot on the specific problem. Maybe its my search terms.

Joe
_________________
1972 VW Westfailia
1966 Corvair Monza
2001 Audi TT 225Q Roadster
2009 VW Tiguan SE

[Desertbusman]

Did you search? This has been covered before. You might find info that won't show up here. I've never had that problem but it sounds like you would want to do some grinding or bending of the backing plate. You wouldn't want shavings to fall into the drum and get embeded in the shoes. Main thing is you found the problem.
_________________
71 Superbug
71 Westy

[Jtast17]

so...an update.

Pulled the most offensive of the two drums here this morning. Brakes operate normally...so its not the "shoes" themselves or the retainers that are causing the problem. Drum was also super easy to remove...no issue.

Moved to the backing plate contact with drum and think I've found the problem as we had mentioned before. Found very "fine" metal shavings in the "inner groove" that the backing plate sits into on the drum itself. Looking carefully, you can ever so slightly see a very fine circle being cut into the drum by that inner "rim" of the backing plate.

So...the question...leave it be...put up with the noise probably for a few hundred miles...or try to carefully "dremel" the offending problem away. If so...go for the rim on the backing plate itself...or the inside of the drum as Scott had mentioned before (only in referencing the older drum)?

Joe
_________________
1972 VW Westfailia
1966 Corvair Monza
2001 Audi TT 225Q Roadster
2009 VW Tiguan SE

[Jtast17]

will do...and will check tomorrow. Should make for an interesting day as I hope to go for inspection on Wednesday! Gives me alot to work with given the ideas we have here.

Joe
_________________
1972 VW Westfailia
1966 Corvair Monza
2001 Audi TT 225Q Roadster
2009 VW Tiguan SE

[Desertbusman]

Retaining pins and springs on buses are tighter than on other vehicles. Your problem is probably interference between the drum and backing plate. Pull the drum, look for scraping marks and fix it. This has happened to other folks with new backing plates and drums. Do a Samba search about it.
By the way no special brake tools of any kind are needed to do that brake job.
Each shoe pivots on it's own adjuster and is actuated by it's own piston. They are independant of each other. Not like some systems that are linked together. So equal threads on each side doesn't mean anything as long as each shoe is properly installed and adjusted just a tad back from drum contact.
_________________
71 Superbug
71 Westy

[SGKent]

all the pins are too short these days unless you fit custom pins. We've bought genuine VW parts and they are too short. I wish someone made the correct 3 piece sets.

You don't need to turn the drums if they are new. I missed that sentence in your thread. One thing you do want to look at is simply jack the car up and put it on safety stands. Pull off the wheels then drums. Leave the center nut alone. Look at the shoes and make sure they look even on how they sit at the brake cylinder. Look at the number of turns on the adjusters and make sure they look even too. Look at the e-brake cable and be sure it isn't rubbing on anything. Compare the sides and see if there are any differences.
_________________
“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin

[Jtast17]

I could check this too. Does anyone know the exact length for the bay bus? I used the longest ones in the set....it was also a Beck-Arnley hardware set as well. Looks like I'll be pulling both drums again anyways tomorrow for some investigating...

if anything...the springs on the hardware set to me seemed rather "tall" in height vs. what I've used in the past and for all the more purpose they serve. If it does prove to be the problem, I wonder if I could simply remove a single coil from the springs to ease the pressure (since I did use the longest retainer pins).

Joe
_________________
1972 VW Westfailia
1966 Corvair Monza
2001 Audi TT 225Q Roadster
2009 VW Tiguan SE

[kreemoweet]

If the shoe retaining pins are too short (which seems likely from your
description), the shoes will be clamped to the backing plate with excessive
force. The brake cylinder pistons will be able to move them, but the
return springs may not be able to retract them sufficiently when you release
the brakes. This could cause (possibly intermittant) scraping noises. There
are several different lengths of retaining pins. I would suggest you make
sure you have the correct length.
_________________
'67 bug: seized by the authorities
'68 bug: seized by the authorities
'71 kombi: not yet seized by the authorities

Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!

[Jtast17]

my setup is exactly like this one that is pictured...

I have seen the "flanged" bolts missing, etc. before as well. However, I've got all the stock hardware in mine, etc. The entire hydraulic line assembly was replaced about 5-6 years ago...like i said before..hence the non-replacement of the drivers side rubber line...there was no issue there. P side was for preventative purposes due to the failed wheel cylinder and worrying about some debris being back through the line...non issue.

[SGKent]

[Desertbusman]

[SGKent]

were the drums turned? There may be a ridge inside that is rubbing on the new shoes.

What tools did you use? I have been doing this for 35 years and it pays to have the right brake tools to stretch the springs and put on retainers.

The shoes aren't the only thing that rubs. On our driver side when I took it apart the E-brake cable was rubbing on the hub. It had done it so long the cable was worn through almost. Bad PO job.

Is the rubbing even or does it go whoosh ..........................whoosh...................whoosh If so the drum maybe oval shaped if you didn't have it turned.

And if the drag is even then I would suspect as Scott of German Supply suggested, that the backing plate is rubbing on the drum.
_________________
“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin

[Desertbusman]

[nathansnathan]

[nathansnathan]

See how in the last picture I posted there's a hex bolt holding the parking brake lever on?

That's how mine was too, funny enough. There's supposed to be a flanged dowel thing that is way more fitted. There's a nut on the other side of that, and like mine, when it came loose, it made the lever rub on I think The drum. Maybe yours is the same.

[Desertbusman]

[Jtast17]

Thanks for the help. Seriously? I have done enough brakes to be able to tell if I need to replace the hose. The bus has seen maybe 300 miles in the last few years...the d side had already been replaced. The p side hadn't and neither are part of the problem at this point. Are you guys going to seriously sit here and lecture me on that and thread posting? If so...just personally...save the comments.
I just asked a question. That is all...was looking for help.

Joe
_________________
1972 VW Westfailia
1966 Corvair Monza
2001 Audi TT 225Q Roadster
2009 VW Tiguan SE

[VDubTech]

I can't believe someone would do all of that work and not replace both hoses. It makes no difference what it looks like on the outside, what matters is what's inside, and you can't see that.
_________________
First Trip in the RustyBus:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=279077&highlight=