PopTop Cable Broke. Made new one. Link to pics.

[Vanagon Nut]

Hi all.

For those who don't know, there's a cable + spring in each pop top strut that assists lifting. Or as I found, assists lowering. One of mine failed on the last 1/4 of lowering. Top suddenly "fell". No not really literally, but pop top weight suddenly increased. I was caught off guard. Coulda really hurt my head. ( I can live w/o that right? )

The cable is NLA from VW. It has a swaged type "Z" fitting. (thoughts toward other solutions below) I can borrow a crimper, but can't find the swaged "Z" fitting. And, it seems that my thoughts toward drilling out the plug on other end of cable, pushing the cable through and crimping on a stopper to the end, may not work. Possibly not enough room between new end of cable and pivot pin.

Anyone know of a totally reliable way to make a cable? If not....

If I go with the Jack Bombay lift kit, I figured I'd disarm the other good cable. That way the lift strength is set up for that "weight" with nothing but the struts (edit: gas cartridges) to (eventually) fade away.

Any users out there with both sides (cable/springs) broken using the Jack Bombay lift assist setup?


Thanks!

Neil.

(leg looks too small.... would have to be pushed through from under, then wire crimped on... I think. From here:

http://tinyurl.com/2avsmwd

Bolt to hole on strut and bend? From here: http://tinyurl.com/29kxquj

_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA

1988 West DIY 50º ABA

VE7TBN

[spitsnrovers]

I'm curious what thickness that cable is. I have cable and I have the swage fittings, about 1/8"dia. Got them from a local Princess Auto in Canada. You have a similar outlet in many areas of the US. Harbour Freight comes to mind, and there is another large one that sells by internet and post.

I never use a swaging tool, just vise grip type pliers tightened progressively as the swage flattens.
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'88 VW Westfalia
'75 Triumph Spitfire 1500

[Vanagon Nut]

[Witless Joe]

Neil, try Pro-Tech Rigging. I bet they could find that Z fitting.

(604) 988-3052.

[Vanagon Nut]

[Vanagon Nut]

[spitsnrovers]

Vanagon nut - for that "z" piece, with a small lathe and steel rod, couldn't it be possible to drill out a hole in the end to suit the cable?
Then crimp it on with a vice, punches or the like.
Then with a vice and hammer, or arbour press, put the 'z' kink in it?

As for the other end, I am not familiar with what it looks like.

Maybe I just like a challenge, but I'd be trying to make a replacement if, or when, mine goes like yours
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'88 VW Westfalia
'75 Triumph Spitfire 1500

[Vanagon Nut]

[Vanagon Nut]

Ok. So Mr. Spitsnrovers got me going.

If you choose to make and/or use this part, you do so at your own risk.

Here's what I see as being one possible solution. I don't feel like taking my pop top struts apart AGAIN. So some of this is guesstimating.

The thimble (part inside loop) might be a bit too long causing cable where it exits the ferrule (the crimp on part) to be bent at a small angle. This is because it may go around curve instead of flat bit of arm (see previous pic) AFAIK, the cable shouldn't bend where it enters or exits a fitting. (termination) But..... guy at yacht place that did the swage ball, suggested this may not be an issue in this case as the angle would likely be small. Bottom line: the original part failed, and 29 years from now, the part shown may well fail. Still, I'd prefer to use a cable bushing (picture a small pulley) at this end. The distance from arm face to stop pin (pin that stops the motion of struts once top is up) is ~ 11mm. The height of thimble, washer and bolt head will hopefully be less and will clear the pin when top pushed up. BTW, as seen in another members post, these parts wear. I repaired mine so it's dang close to original. The 11 mm I roughly measured MAY NOT APPLY to your struts. They may be quite worn.

Other end is a bolt I ground down (no lathe!) and drilled a hole through. The shank of swage ball end fits into this hole. I will counter sink bolt head where ball seats. And even though the cable should be a straight pull through the spring, I will counter sink or chamfer hole where cable exits. I may push some silicone through too. The stock piece might be useable in the same fashion, but I'd be curious to know just how much the strength of the end would be compromised by countersink. I cut a coil off the spring and ground end "level" to allow for the longer bolt head/ball combo. The head on the factory part is ~ 4.3 mm. There is ~ 4 mm between head on factory part (no coil cut) and pin that secures strut to lower hinge bracket. Cutting a coil off gave me an added ~ 10 mm clearance IIRC.


To secure upper end, I'd likely run a bolt through hole where Z was. There appears to be room on the other side of this hole for a nylon locking nut.

It is crucial that this nut/bolt stay put!

If total length of cable/terminations is right, even when top up, there is slight tension on the spring. I assume it was originally designed that way so Z wouldn't come out of hole. With that said, I would try to get the new assembly length as close to OEM as I could.

I did a dry run of supporting pop top with post. Top was lowered slightly onto post. This took weight off the struts. Once done, it's possible to take apart the arm WITHOUT the cable.

DO NOT TAKE APART ARM WITH CABLE. Even though when top up, the spring is barely compressed, it just wouldn't be wise to do so.

Parts are all SS - 3/32". The cable (wire rope actually) is slightly larger than what I removed. The shop used 7x19 wire. Ball on end is a shingle shank swage ball. Google will show you the way on that one. This part ABSOLUTELY has to be swaged on and the ferrule ABSOLUTELY has to be installed with the right tool. A cable wire (wire rope) shop or marine rigging shop will help you with this.

I asked dealership recently about this part. It's NLA, but was listed at ~ $45 Cnd. Parts cost for mine was around $20. The swage charge being $10 per.

The swage was done by someone who knows what he's doing. I may go back and get him to crimp the ferrule. We'll see.

My apologies for all the upper case. Just want to be clear. Hope all this helps. If someone else needs this part, they would be well served to measure everything. At the very least, this post should save the next person some time Googling and such.

I have yet to get my Jack Bombay kit. Once it's in, I may remove the good cable and see how well things work w/o the stock assist.

Neil.

_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA

1988 West DIY 50º ABA

VE7TBN

[spitsnrovers]

Wow Vanagon Nut, you really did take the ball and run with it! That looks like a serious piece of production.

Never having had mine apart, it is a little unclear to me how it all works, but, I'll keep those measurements you gave for future reference, as I'm sure I'll need them some day.

As everyone else says - install those pop top assist struts. Magic.
Good work!
_________________
'88 VW Westfalia
'75 Triumph Spitfire 1500

[Vanagon Nut]

[Vanagon Nut]

[Vanagon Nut]

Hi all.

Ok. Got Marks kit. Here's what I found out. For point of reference, I'm a 6' 2" male of average strength.

Regular strength kit + 1 working stock spring assist. Kit really helps. Last 1/5 on the way down, top cockeyed. It can be closed.

Regular strength NO stock spring assist. Raising top "ok". Kit assists part of the way down. Last 1/5 hard to hold up top while tucking canvas. Like I'd have to rest it on my head and push up on roof. More difficult than with just one working spring. Top prone to wobbling at front end.

Stronger cartridges, NO stock spring assist. Top would stay up when lowered part way and was easier to lower until last 1/5. Then it was just as difficult.

I figure the stock springs are designed to assist (and they do, it seems) on that last 1/4 or 1/5 on the way down. Makes sense. The springs stretch more and more, increasing in tension thus being able to effectively reduce the weight more and more. Makes sense because top effectively gets heavier as it gets lower. Conversely, my guess is that a gas cartridge does not have equal strength throughout its' entire range of motion.

I did not try the HD kit.

At this point, I'm done messing around. I just want to use this rig. I have things basically figured out for the replacement cable so will install that asap.

In NO way is this a negative comment on Marks kit. My intention was to see if the kit could replace the stock spring setup. AFAIK, not a part of what the kit was designed for.

IMO, bottom line: if one cable is broken, find a way to replace it. Inspect the other one for signs of wear. Mine broke at the elbow. I suspect this is where the cable sees the most stress.

Neil.
_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA

1988 West DIY 50º ABA

VE7TBN

[jackbombay]

[Vanagon Nut]

[Vanagon Nut]

[mortengrau]

Facing the same problem on my T4 today, ten years after this post, I have been able to track down the “z” strut - almost......

Probably not of use for you guys, but maybe it’ll be a help for someone outthere in the future.

When I showed the worn down end to my mechanic, he immediately said: “brake wire”. I turns out that Westfalia (maybe) have just used original VW Transporter brake cables, and then moderated them to fit into their lifting bar spring assisted system.

I have not been able to track down where to get that cable (if it’s at all possible), but at least I found the “z-end”. Maybe someone can design a DIY from that info....? 🤞

[/img]

[Vanagon Nut]

[mortengrau]

You’re welcome

BONUS: The ‘z’ is called a “dog leg wire end” or wire stop:

https://www.google.com/search?q=dog+leg+wire+end&a...&hl=da

[foodeater]

It looks like a lawn mower throttle cable might work as a replacement for this. Assuming you can find the right length.


https://www.walmart.com/ip/183281-Replacement-Brak...gIPr_D_BwE

and you would still need to crimp on the correct fitting on the end.

Perhaps a small engine repair place it where to loo for the dog leg end.
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89 Bluestar-2.5 Subaru Powered-RIP
'84 Westy Tiico-daily driver-sold
'82 Caddy diesel-sold
'87 Vanagon Syncro-RIP
'81 diesel rabbit-sold
'82 Vanagon auto-RIP