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hippiepilot Samba Member
Joined: June 18, 2008 Posts: 455 Location: Sarasota, FL
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Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 4:51 pm Post subject: Burnt Fuel Line? |
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So I'm changing the fuel lines on my 91 carat and when I pull the line off the right side, the one that runs from the fuel rail to the "T", it comes out with a melted spot on it. I guess the alternator got hot enough to melt the plastic fuel sleeve. Is this where this line should be? Can you run it somewhere else. I mean under the alternator? Doesn't really make sense to me. The hose clamps sparking when I was trying to remove them was enough for me today now a melted fuel line. Time for a cold one. Thanks for any input.
[/img] _________________ 83 air-cooled Westy
91 Carat (daily driver)
http://www.changeisland.com |
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RadioRental Samba Member
Joined: June 30, 2009 Posts: 555 Location: stow, ma
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Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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That's interesting. Just want to double check.. are you 100% the plastic is burnt and not some weird friction wear/burring thing going on with maybe a little heat from the alternator.
I'm having a hard time imagining a functioning alt regulator generating that much heat!
Either way, melting plastic is one thing, melting proper rated fuel hose is something else, while that much heat is not a good thing I doubt you were a hair's breadth from a fuel fire (electrical maybe!)
Pays to get under the hood and pull things apart / inspect. _________________ __________________________________
'87 2.1. 125K 4spd Not rebuilt "Red Dwarf" |
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dhaavers Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010 Posts: 7733 Location: NE MN (tinyurl.com/dhaaverslocation)
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Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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FWIW - the "burn" looks like the original plastic sleeve, not so much the rubber fuel line hose beneath.
Maybe a poor solder job on a nearby electrical connection?
(Still, time to replace, yes?)
FWEIW - If/when replacing, check out tencentlife's routing of fuel lines which I tried to emulate when I replaced mine this summer.
Keep 'em close to the cooler air coming in, out of harm's way, plus anything this nice & pretty is always a joy to behold.
And as Ben says, just lose the sleeves...
(photo from tencentlife)
_________________ 86 White Wolfsburg Westy Weekender
"The WonderVan"
<EDITED TO PROTECT INNOCENT PIXELS> |
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purplepeopleeater Samba Member
Joined: July 23, 2005 Posts: 3117 Location: E. Washington
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Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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mmm purple |
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mariusstrom Samba Member
Joined: March 29, 2010 Posts: 745
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Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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dhaavers wrote: |
FWIW - the "burn" looks like the original plastic sleeve, not so much the rubber fuel line hose beneath.
Maybe a poor solder job on a nearby electrical connection?
(Still, time to replace, yes?)
FWEIW - If/when replacing, check out tencentlife's routing of fuel lines which I tried to emulate when I replaced mine this summer.
Keep 'em close to the cooler air coming in, out of harm's way, plus anything this nice & pretty is always a joy to behold.
And as Ben says, just lose the sleeves...
(photo from tencentlife)
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Snipped photo - damn, that's pretty routing. Anyone have a $0.10 photo of a 2.1L? Obviously a different top end to the engine, which would have different routing. _________________ Marius Strom Otto: 1988 Vanagon Syncro Westy Camper
[SOLD] Felix: 1967 Deluxe Beetle |
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hippiepilot Samba Member
Joined: June 18, 2008 Posts: 455 Location: Sarasota, FL
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Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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After I thought about it for while (last night) I realized when I removed the line it was right under the alternator. Shouldn't have been there in the first place and the fuel line looked like was in good condition . The engine is a rebuild 60K on it, all the lines really didn't need replacing, but it is hard to tell with the sleeves, the injector lines on the other hand were starting to get that fuel stained appearance. I'm guessing when the PO had the engine rebuilt they just didn't do the fuel rail lines. It just freaked me out. I use my Carat as a daily and I drive my three kids around in it.
I am going to do a temp check on the alternator just to be sure. What is a normal temp? I think changing your fuel lines is not only important for safety reasons but it makes you get to know your new engine, where everything is etc and possibly other safety issues. Thanks for all the input. _________________ 83 air-cooled Westy
91 Carat (daily driver)
http://www.changeisland.com |
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dhaavers Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010 Posts: 7733 Location: NE MN (tinyurl.com/dhaaverslocation)
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Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 8:35 am Post subject: |
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mariusstrom wrote: |
...2.1L...would have different routing... |
Actually very similar, but the alternator is always the area to work around (hence the subject of this thread).
I kept my lines forward of the alternator (towards plenum & intakes) which required them to be a bit bendy, but seemed better to keep them out in the open rather than running them past & under the sharper-edged alt. bracket & additional heat from same. And oh yeah, alternators make sparks.
I still like the idea that they're right next to the coolest part of the engine (intake air).
Note also the scrap of hose on the seam of the plenum to the right of pressure regulator, preventing wear on the return line. Nice touch...
PS - Here's one of $.10 pics w/alternator installed, but fuel lines not as easy to see...same difference, I guess.
_________________ 86 White Wolfsburg Westy Weekender
"The WonderVan"
<EDITED TO PROTECT INNOCENT PIXELS> |
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tencentlife Samba Member
Joined: May 02, 2006 Posts: 10067 Location: Abiquiu, NM, USA
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Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 9:35 am Post subject: |
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Digi-jet vs. -fant makes no difference in the way I do the fuel hoses.
I just uploaded a few more pics to my Phtobucket page with better details of the hose installation which should help if you choose to copy this method. Here's one:
_________________ Shop for unique Vanagon accessories at the Vanistan shop:
https://intrepidoverland.com/vanistan/
Please don't PM here, I will not reply.
Experience is kryptonite to doctrine. |
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GMByers Samba Member
Joined: December 07, 2008 Posts: 642 Location: Retired in NW PA
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Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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Hippiepilot,
Interesting photo, exactly what I saw the other day. I'm back in the States from Korea for a couple of weeks. I was changing the fuel lines on my recently acquired 90 Vanagon and had the exact same situation.
I just ran the new fuel line through the plastic and rerouted the line a little further away from the alternator.
Gary _________________ And then there were two...downsized to 83 Doka &
74 Thing. |
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dhaavers Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010 Posts: 7733 Location: NE MN (tinyurl.com/dhaaverslocation)
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Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 6:11 am Post subject: |
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Beautiful - love your work! I will call about one of your 2.2's someday! _________________ 86 White Wolfsburg Westy Weekender
"The WonderVan"
<EDITED TO PROTECT INNOCENT PIXELS> |
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tencentlife Samba Member
Joined: May 02, 2006 Posts: 10067 Location: Abiquiu, NM, USA
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Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 7:06 am Post subject: |
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Thanks! _________________ Shop for unique Vanagon accessories at the Vanistan shop:
https://intrepidoverland.com/vanistan/
Please don't PM here, I will not reply.
Experience is kryptonite to doctrine. |
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msinabottle Samba Member
Joined: September 20, 2005 Posts: 3492 Location: Denver Area, Colorado
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Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:50 pm Post subject: Thank you, Chris! |
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Thanks very much Chris for the pictures on your Photobucket site. They will be a great deal of help when I re-do Winston's lines with the PolyArmour metal lines.
I'm doing my measuring now before I order the best clamps I can find, I've learned how to do metric bubble flares and had 4 feet of Gates Barricade hose for my connections. I need to measure the O.D. of that over the new billet metal rails and firewall connection, I'm using those and the rubber lines to dampen vibration.
More complicated than I thought it would be.
Best! _________________ 'Winston,' '84 1.9 WBX Westy
Vanagon Poet Laureate: "I have suffered in
many ways, but never, never, never in silence." |
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Bound.For.Nowhere Samba Member
Joined: December 14, 2014 Posts: 15 Location: Atlanta
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Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 9:05 am Post subject: |
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Does anyone have a picture of a good way to route the fuel lines?
dhaavers wrote: |
FWIW - the "burn" looks like the original plastic sleeve, not so much the rubber fuel line hose beneath.
Maybe a poor solder job on a nearby electrical connection?
(Still, time to replace, yes?)
FWEIW - If/when replacing, check out tencentlife's routing of fuel lines which I tried to emulate when I replaced mine this summer.
Keep 'em close to the cooler air coming in, out of harm's way, plus anything this nice & pretty is always a joy to behold.
And as Ben says, just lose the sleeves...
(photo from tencentlife)
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tencentlife Samba Member
Joined: May 02, 2006 Posts: 10067 Location: Abiquiu, NM, USA
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Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 9:25 am Post subject: |
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Here's the pic whose link above is obsolete:
_________________ Shop for unique Vanagon accessories at the Vanistan shop:
https://intrepidoverland.com/vanistan/
Please don't PM here, I will not reply.
Experience is kryptonite to doctrine. |
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IdahoDoug Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2010 Posts: 10239 Location: N. Idaho
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Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 10:08 am Post subject: |
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Gorgeous. Even the dipstick tube, eh? Nice.
Worth pointing out that 10c puts an anti chafe piece on the edge of the intake plenum to prevent wear on the fuel line there an inch from the fuel pressure regulator. I've seen quite a few engines without that important item. Details, details - man that purple mill has 'em...
Doug _________________ 1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader |
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tjet Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2014 Posts: 3528 Location: CA & NM
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Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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Why not eliminate some of those rubber hoses by fabricating some hard lines?
This is what I did on another engine....
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Westified Samba Member
Joined: May 01, 2012 Posts: 401 Location: Miami, FL
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Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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Fwiw I put fire sleeve around my new fuel lines for added protection.
_________________ 1984 Westy Wolfsburg, owned since 1987. FAS 2.0 NA engine conversion in 2022. |
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tjet Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2014 Posts: 3528 Location: CA & NM
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Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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Those little blue German EFI clamps sure do take a fair amount of twisting force to tighten up. I would guess that the final torque value is not that much more than the run-in torque. |
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bluebus86 Banned
Joined: September 02, 2010 Posts: 11075
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Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2015 10:03 am Post subject: |
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tencentlife wrote: |
Here's the pic whose link above is obsolete:
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You may want to consider some sleeves on the hoses as the factory did. The sleeve in the first posters photo may have saved the day, by protecting the hose. The above photo of the purple engine does not show sleeves on the hoses Don't cheap out and leave out the sleeves.
I install sleeves on my fuel hoses. The first photo gives good support for the need of sleeves on the hoses. Don't forget this important detail. _________________ Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information
Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022 |
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RCB Samba Member
Joined: September 05, 2005 Posts: 4143 Location: San Francisco-Bay Area
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Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2015 11:25 am Post subject: |
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bluebus86 wrote: |
tencentlife wrote: |
Here's the pic whose link above is obsolete:
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You may want to consider some sleeves on the hoses as the factory did. The sleeve in the first posters photo may have saved the day, by protecting the hose. The above photo of the purple engine does not show sleeves on the hoses Don't cheap out and leave out the sleeves.
I install sleeves on my fuel hoses. The first photo gives good support for the need of sleeves on the hoses. Don't forget this important detail. |
Gosh , with anyone as knowledgeable as yourself, I'm at odds as to why someone would ignore you. |
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