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SGKent 
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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 Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 11:44 am Post subject: Insurance / Hagerty warning |
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FYI to all Thesamba members who are concerned about car insurance. Just had a conversation with Hagerty. In spite of what they may tell you on the phone, they will not cover a car that is used for "vacation" use. That means, and they were adamant about this, if the bus is used say on a day long "vacation" trip they won't pay the policy regardless of whether you stay in a hotel or camp. They consider a trip say out to the nearest park or say Route 66 or Route 1 that is not sponsored by a known car club to be an uninsured trip. That is true even if it is the only drive you take your car on during the whole year. If you have Hagerty and you drive your bus anywhere except to shows or genuine club events you are pretty much on your own without insurance. They will take your money and tell you that you are insured but you are not. I asked for written clarification on their policies and this is what they provided. Even if you had a claim in the past under these conditions you were lucky if you got paid. This is not a gee officer I was only 5 miles over the speed limit can I fudge it. They were adamant that they will not pay on claims anymore that are not 100% true collector use, club events, shows and sitting in the garage. Don't even bother calling them and if you use them for anything other than collector insurance better get on the phone and start looking for new insurance.
They feel that a fiifteen minute Sunday drive is pleasure use but a trip up to the National Park is vacation use and the policy will not cover "vacation use." There was no way around it with them.
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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patayres
Samba Member
Joined: March 20, 2009
Posts: 991
Location: Bend, Orygun
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| Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 11:55 am Post subject: |
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American Collector's Insurance has the same policy. I'm sure this is how they get away with such low premiums.
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1975 Westfalia Helsinki - 1800 EFI w/ Pertronix
1965 Singlecab - 1600dp
yuthi'so'coro |
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RussellK
Samba Member
Joined: March 09, 2006
Posts: 225
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| Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 11:55 am Post subject: |
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I spoke with a rep at Grundy and thats pretty much what he told me too.
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-Russ
'77 Westphalia
'68 Standard |
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EZ Gruv
King of Plaid
Joined: December 10, 2002
Posts: 8544
Location: Las Vegas
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| Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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Those of us that actually use our buses pay for real insurance. 
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Eric
1977 Deluxe Westfalia - 2.0L FI Type IV, Completely Original
Photographer for HotVWs, VolksWorld, AirMighty, VW Camper & Commercial, Hayburner, and more.
My Photography Page. |
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OB Bus
Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2003
Posts: 2541
Location: Ocean Beach in Beautiful BLUE California
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WestyPop
Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2005
Posts: 1732
Location: SoCal
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| Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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| OB Bus wrote: |
| And "real" insurance isn't really that expensive. And I can drive anywhere fully insured. |
Haven't lived in OB since the '70s, but still in SoCal. I'd sure like to hear which insurance co. "isn't really that expensive" for a regularly-used bus.
TIA
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Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
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68 Westy
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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| EZ Gruv wrote: |
| Those of us that actually use our buses pay for real insurance. |
That is a laugh. USAA said they would pay maybe $1500 on a 35 year old car that was insured regularly. They referred me to Progressive who has a "stated" regular policy. Since I held a California Casualty license at one time I asked the right questions and guess what, Progressive has a little clause in their policy (stated OR lessor of ACV) which their person said, yes - that means we would pay almost nothing on a 35 year old car even if it was restored the day before by a well known collector - don't buy from us if you want to get what that bus is worth. So I then called Hagerty and baciscally they are looking for trailer and garage queens that might go on one club event a year or to shows (BTW, some have clauses you can't walk away from them at a show). So we are still looking for a REAL stated/agreed policy like you suggest we get. It isn't insurance if it says in fine print "we will pay you when and what we feel like but please send us the premium every year."
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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static
Samba Member
Joined: March 22, 2002
Posts: 1831
Location: The High Desert
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| Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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| EZ Gruv wrote: |
| Those of us that actually use our buses pay for real insurance. |
ditto. |
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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| static wrote: |
| EZ Gruv wrote: |
| Those of us that actually use our buses pay for real insurance. |
ditto. |
I repeat - that is a laugh and you may be very smug but stupid too. You are driving a 35 - 40 year old car. Unless you have an AGREED VALUE policy you have nothing other than liability insurance but if your bus is a dog and you don't care if it is totaled then that is Ok. If you do have a full coverage AGREED VALUE policy please post the name of the insurance carrier who offers it.
To figure what most regular policies will pay, take what it will cost you to replace your bus and divide it in half. That is about what you will get.
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin
Last edited by SGKent on Thu Aug 12, 2010 1:41 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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dreadnotmusic
Samba Member
Joined: March 04, 2003
Posts: 880
Location: Guam, USA
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| Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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USAA payed me $3500 when I did this in 2002:
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chabanais
Samba Member
Joined: July 27, 2002
Posts: 4866
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| Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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Wow that is interesting about Progressive! The rep told me to get it appraised and they'd pay that much if it got wrecked. Never told about the little escape clause!
| SGKent wrote: |
| EZ Gruv wrote: |
| Those of us that actually use our buses pay for real insurance. |
That is a laugh. USAA said they would pay maybe $1500 on a 35 year old car that was insured regularly. They referred me to Progressive who has a "stated" regular policy. Since I held a California Casualty license at one time I asked the right questions and guess what, Progressive has a little clause in their policy (stated OR lessor of ACV) which their person said, yes - that means we would pay almost nothing on a 35 year old car even if it was restored the day before by a well known collector - don't buy from us if you want to get what that bus is worth. So I then called Hagerty and baciscally they are looking for trailer and garage queens that might go on one club event a year or to shows (BTW, some have clauses you can't walk away from them at a show). So we are still looking for a REAL stated/agreed policy like you suggest we get. It isn't insurance if it says in fine print "we will pay you when and what we feel like but please send us the premium every year." |
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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| dreadnotmusic wrote: |
USAA payed me $3500 when I did this in 2002:
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yes $3500 for a bus worth $12,500. That is a good deal for USAA. We are fighting right now on a 1995 Acura. A guy hit me while he was shaving in the rear view mirror. Their offer is about 50% of what it will cost me to replace the car. I am tired of this insurance company crap of promising and not delivering. You should have gotten either the bus fully repaired or $12,500 for that bus minimum.
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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| chabanais wrote: |
| Wow that is interesting about Progressive! The rep told me to get it appraised and they'd pay that much if it got wrecked. Never told about the little escape clause! |
Note - their appraiser sets the value. Then if he differs with your apraiser's value you can hire an attorney but you can't sue them, YOU have to pay for your attorney's time and a 3rd party arbitrator who decides which value to accept. The only way to make it work is if they AGREE to a value when you buy the policy. Any of us know what it costs to restore buses today. It ain't cheap and 50 cents on the dollar is crap. The Progressive rep at Progressive told me the other night off the record that they won't pay the higher "stated" amount on their policies unless their appraiser agrees and today Hagerty told me that anything beyond a short drive to keep the battery charged is uninsured unless it is a club event. American Modern said the same. The problem is the comparables they will use will reflect some guy posting to sell a bus on CL. A regular policy will assume that all the money you put into the bus was regular maintenance
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin
Last edited by SGKent on Thu Aug 12, 2010 1:55 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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chabanais
Samba Member
Joined: July 27, 2002
Posts: 4866
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| Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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Great.
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"I spud therefore I yam." |
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mattcuddy
Samba Member
Joined: October 22, 2003
Posts: 2036
Location: Philly, PA
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| Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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Can you find any stories on this site (or others) where Hagerty didn't pay out for an accident? Even at non-club events?
I haven't heard of any. The line they gave you may be true to the letter of your policy, and be strictly enforceable. But when an accident actually happens, they may still pay out. In essence, the language may be there to self select out people that are going to *massively* abuse the use terms of the policy.
Not that that gives you a leg to stand on legally, its just two more cents in the mix. |
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EZ Gruv
King of Plaid
Joined: December 10, 2002
Posts: 8544
Location: Las Vegas
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| Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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I bet my friend here at work that I could get this thread all stirred up. He owes me $5. 
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Eric
1977 Deluxe Westfalia - 2.0L FI Type IV, Completely Original
Photographer for HotVWs, VolksWorld, AirMighty, VW Camper & Commercial, Hayburner, and more.
My Photography Page. |
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sped372
Samba Member
Joined: March 30, 2006
Posts: 653
Location: Waunakee, WI
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| Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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| static wrote: |
| EZ Gruv wrote: |
| Those of us that actually use our buses pay for real insurance. |
ditto. |
We use ours nearly every weekend. American Family let us insure it with an RV policy since it is a camper... it's about $120/year for full coverage. No mileage limits, they expect you to vacation in it. I'd say that's pretty good for "real" insurance.
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1971 Karmann Ghia - 1600 DP
1984 Westfalia - 1.9 WBX |
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BusterBrown
Samba Member
Joined: December 15, 2009
Posts: 1397
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| I am tired of this insurance company crap of promising and not delivering. |
Car insurance, health insurance, homeowners insurance. Taking our money and telling us we're insured, only to find out when we need to collect that we're actually not covered like we thought we were. That's fraud, and it ain't right. Perfect examples of why we need regulation, and can't trust corporations to do what's right. They don't, and they won't.
They'll spend umpteen millions of dollars on advertising though. Telling us how great they are.
Buyer beware.
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1978 Sage Green Westfalia (Happy Trails, SOLD)
1977 Transporter
Life is short. Can I have some of yours? |
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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| sped372 wrote: |
| static wrote: |
| EZ Gruv wrote: |
| Those of us that actually use our buses pay for real insurance. |
ditto. |
We use ours nearly every weekend. American Family let us insure it with an RV policy since it is a camper... it's about $120/year for full coverage. No mileage limits, they expect you to vacation in it. I'd say that's pretty good for "real" insurance. |
we almost bought camper insurance but I backed out when the guy read to me in the policy that it had to contain a working built-in shower, toilet, stove and refridge for the coverage to pay.
What I think some of you are missing is that things are different today than 2 or 3 years ago because of the recession. Some people wreck their nice cars because they are broke and it is easier than finding a buyer. Companies want to find ways out of spending money. From what the lady at Hagerty told me, those kinds of situations where someone was taking a kid to school and "charging" the battery won't cut it anymore. They don't want those drivers on their books anymore. Literally she said "if someone takes their 60's muscle car or whatever to the bed and breakfast at the beach and takes then a drive down the coast a few miles the next day we will turn that claim down because that is "vacation useage" which is excluded." We don't want anything except garaged or trailered collection cars anymore, a car used for ANYTHING else isn't the car we want to insure anymore regardless. I asked her "what does Haggerty do when someone takes their 1960 pristine corvette down to Route 66 and the Grand Canyon for a nostagic pleasure drive with their wife and spends one night along the way in a nice Hotel?" She said we turn the claim down and tell them they were using the car for a vacation which is daily use and as such it wasn't insured for that.
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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pb24ss
Samba Member
Joined: June 30, 2005
Posts: 1665
Location: sitting around the fire with the bluegrass band - colorado
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| Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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I was hit from behind while stopped at a stop light. The AH that hit me had travelers auto insurance. Their appraiser came out and looked at the damage and my estimates. They paid the bill for the repair which came in at over $3000. I did have to buy a new oil dip stick that they wouldn't cover. Here's some pics of the damage.
http://pictures.radom.org/v/vw/bessie/rearended/ |
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