3 finger vs. diaphragm pressure plate

Rick Braun

Is there a difference, in terms of clutch engagement adjustment. Currently having a lot of trouble w/ 67 trans and 1600 combo w/ early TO and diaphragm w/ collar. Wondering if 3 finger might be better or have any advantages. TIA.

Stocknazi · Samba Member Joined: June 18, 2004 Posts: 5150

What type of issues are you having?

I am using a diaphram clutch+early t/o bearing with a 1600 and splitcase transmission and it works well.
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55samba · Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2014 5:00 pm Post subject:

I consider a diaphragm clutch to be a significant improvement when it comes to clutch engagement and petal effort over a 3 finger clutch.

Like StockNazi wrote what are your issues?

Rick Braun · Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2014 6:52 pm Post subject:

After installing a newly rebuilt 67 swing axle and 1600 engine, I could not get the gears to engage w/ the engine running. Shifted easily into all gears when engine off. I have inspected everything under the SC many times, looking at the clutch cable/operation/Bowden tube, shift rod couplers, output trans shaft movement. Everything "looks" good. Have adjusted stop plate under shifter.

Finally, after many gradual clutch cable adjustments, I could shift all gears w/ engine running. Went for a short ride, instantly heard loud grinding, slipping clutch and could not get into 1st or 2nd. Called for a tow home. Pulled the engine expecting to find something torn up - but no. The only thing odd is brown dust on the TO bearing (which spins easily) and the pressure plate. Fly looks glazed.

Pretty much at a loss. I worry that I may have chewed up the trans. Will drain tomorrow and look for metal chards. It seems like the clutch has always been the culprit, but I have done everything I can think of.

Eric&Barb · Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2014 7:25 pm Post subject:

How are the needle bearings in the FW gland nut??
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55samba · Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2014 7:30 pm Post subject:

This is the tread I was thinking of. From what I hear you are not getting enough clutch release travel. Besides the thread my first thoughts are does your bowden tube have the proper bend and how much slop is in the transmission/ release shaft?

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3428306#3428306

esde · Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2014 8:50 pm Post subject:

Is the pressure plate new? If not that would be my first item to replace, and go with a diaphragm type. The pedal pressure is typically less, for the same clamping force.

Rick Braun · Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 4:26 pm Post subject:

New info. I removed the gland nut to check the roller bearings. All looks OK but I'm not sure what to look for. Checked the PP collar (that meets with the TO) and it is not level, so new PP is probably needed. I have the old trans here to compare with and after looking at the clutch arm, I noted that it is at least 3/8" closer to the bell housing than the one currently installed on the new trans. When the trans rebuilder did the trans, I asked him to install a new kit , including arm, bearings, fork shaft.) Now I'm wondering if he might have installed the arm too much forward. This would definitely affect the adjustment of the clutch, a problem that I have been struggling with.

Is the position of the arm adjustable with the splines (that engage the fork shaft) or is there only one way to assemble. If it is adjustable, I think I need to move it a few teeth rearward to give me better control over the TO.

esde · Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 5:18 pm Post subject:

I just installed the release arm cross shaft and bushings into a transmission that I'm building. The arm only fit the cross shaft one way, at least with the parts I had on hand. There are a few different arms, depending on what they were originally sourced from. Some are bent, and some are different lengths, but I doubt that would be your problem. Several times I've used a longer arm to help get better leverage (less pedal effort) when using a HD pressure plate, and had no problems as you're describing. The fingers not sitting level with each other indicates a broken pressure plate spring or pivot, so get a new plate, one with the collar for the early throw out bearing. If the rollers in the gland nut feel like they roll smoothly, give them a wipe of high temp grease. Clean the clutch splines, and use a little grease there too. If that doesn't do it I'd start to question the transmission rebuild, though many of the things that can be done incorrectly will result in it jumping out of gear, not going into gear. Hope this helps..
SD

Clara · Samba Member Joined: June 14, 2003 Posts: 12401

Rick Braun · Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2014 8:31 am Post subject:

New PP, disk, TO bearing and gland nut have been ordered. Will make sure to lube all bearings. I'm still wondering about the clutch arm. The old (previous trans) and the new trans both have 73mm arms, but the new one sits farther from the bell housing (return spring tension only) - almost 1/2 in. Still wonder if the new fork shaft was corrected connected to the arm. Any written info on this or personal experience? Couldn't find anything in the Bentley.


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