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morymob
Samba Member
Joined: November 09, 2007
Posts: 4683
Location: east-tn
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 Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 8:59 am Post subject: |
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| Well damn, guess i better call Esslinger and cancel my adaptor kit. |
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whynotvw
Samba Member
Joined: May 04, 2004
Posts: 1322
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| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 9:06 am Post subject: Re: Why? |
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| sunseeker52 wrote: |
It's hard enough getting parts for a stock Vanagon,now go and bastardize one and it's worse! Just go take your stock Vanagon motor to a good performance shop and let them build it up. Way cheaper and you can still go into a auto parts store and they understand what part you need instead of trying to explain how you butchered a VW Vanagon up for a handful of HP. So now what does it do 65 vs 55 on the freeway? WOW!!! If your in that big of a hurry to get through life just go put a gun to your head and your done.
I think it's just a trendy way for some pin head in a VW/Subaru conversion shop to talk you out of your $$$$. Not to mention,lets take some German ingenuity and trade it for some Jap shit. So if I get this,lets sell our Hummer, go buy a syncro,put a Subaru engine in it and I'm the new improved yuppie on the block. |
Nice first post,  I couldn't disagree with you more.
I have nothing against stock engine, but where I live in orange county Ca. almost everyone drives 70-80 miles on the freeway. I felt like a obstacle everyone driving around me, even the big semi's were driving around me. My syncro westy as heavy as it is, it was soo painfully slow with the stock engine. When I had the stock engine, sometimes it was outright dangerous not being able to pass a car or not having enough power to weave through some sketchy situations. After doing the conversion to 2.2 suby I couldn't be happier being able to drive like a normal car. I would never go back to a stock 2.1. and by the way it's nice being able to go to pep boys or autozone to get parts for the engine. There's also a used japanes engine shop 3 minutes from my house that sell complete under 50k mile JDSM engine for $700. |
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Destructo
Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2006
Posts: 405
Location: Westhampton, MA
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| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 12:17 pm Post subject: Re: Why? |
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| sunseeker52 wrote: |
| Not to mention,lets take some German ingenuity and trade it for some Jap shit. |
My Zetec engine was developed and built in Europe. Some parts even say "Made in Germany".
Just getting some facts straight.
There's no need or room for elitists on this forum.
_________________
1985 Wolfsburg Edition Westfalia Camper Bostig conversion
Dude, where's your van? |
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bostig
Samba Member
Joined: February 01, 2006
Posts: 235
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| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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| SeattleDownhill wrote: |
| My wheelwells are sitting about 25 inches off the ground (24" up front). And if my calculations are correct, that would leave the motor right around or under 3" away from draging... Not stoked about that. For stock van height, rad. Just not with my van being so low. |
For the 2010 kit(not on the website yet, still working away on the new one) the clearance(with 25" rear wheel arch height) would be 3"-4" at the cradle, 4"-5" at the lowest point on the oilpan. We are going to have good drawings on the new site to show the clearance and departure angle clearly so you know exactly what to expect. 25" wheel arch height is really low, do you have lowering springs?
Jim |
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SkyWesty
Samba Member
Joined: August 31, 2009
Posts: 9
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
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| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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This is a great and timely thread!
My '91 2wd Westy has just over 200,000 miles on it, and just burst a hose. After much research in the Bentley and on this site, I replace the offending tube (between the thermostat housing and the artificial heart/coolant tower). It's still pouring coolant, so I figure that I'm just a 'tard and can't replace a hose right, and I take it into Concourse Autowerks in Salt Lake City. Great guys, by the way. They hoisted it up, and discover than in the process of replacing the hose, my 20 year old plastic t-stat housing and the coolant tower have split/cracked. To make matters worse, I have the worst blown head gasket Kevin has ever seen!
$1300 will get me back on the road. The research I've done tells me this is actually a pretty good price, but I just can't justify putting that much money into this old engine. We're gonna park the van, and start saving our nickels for the engine swap.
I'm heavily leaning Bostig, mostly because I'm a rookie mechanic but I still want to do it myself. The price is pretty good, and my buddy John swears by his Zetec. I'm hoping by the time I'm ready for the swap, Bostig will have their turbo ready (I live at 5000' elevation)! I think the support the Bostig guys offer is really what is selling me on the Ford...
Anyway, I appreciate all of the dialogue, it's really helped me out- |
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Volksaholic
Samba Member
Joined: December 26, 2005
Posts: 1771
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah, USA
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| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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| SkyWesty wrote: |
I'm heavily leaning Bostig, mostly because I'm a rookie mechanic but I still want to do it myself. The price is pretty good, and my buddy John swears by his Zetec. I'm hoping by the time I'm ready for the swap, Bostig will have their turbo ready (I live at 5000' elevation)! I think the support the Bostig guys offer is really what is selling me on the Ford...
Anyway, I appreciate all of the dialogue, it's really helped me out- |
I'll be interested in seeing your rig when you get the Bostig in. Are there any other Salt Lakers with a Bostig installation? Not that I'm considering swapping out my Subie 2.5... just curious as to some of the other setups.
_________________
1988 Wolfsburg Edition, 2001 Subaru EJ251 |
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SeattleDownhill
Samba Member
Joined: July 29, 2009
Posts: 131
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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| 25" wheel arch height is really low, do you have lowering springs? |
Yeah, I have a bit of a custom setup. It's as low as I want to go. Wheels have a slight tuck... Waiting on brake lines so I can get my Big Red's put on and my 17" Twists... Was hoping to have everything by tomorrow, but there was a delay on the brake lines. Such is life.
The more and more I look into it, the more and more I realize that Subi is the way to go (2.5 or 3.0). Unless I decide to splurge and go for a 2.0t or maybe even STI if I feel like going all out... As for doing it myself... I'd first need a second car, then a place to do it. Someone told me about a guy that will rent half of his garage if need be, or he'd just do it himself. I was told he was in the greater Seattle area, but I don't recall who it was and I lost the info for the guy that told me about him! Anyone have any idea who I might be talking about? |
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thummmper
Samba Member
Joined: November 25, 2009
Posts: 2015
Location: Meadow Valley, California Republic
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| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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group 10 , gregor D. [memory/ last name] less than 3 monthe ago. he said, "ill bet I am the last guy in the group to finish"
and there were still a couple that were behind him. 87 westy with 01 crate motor. he played hell matching the scanner
with the how-to video.
so whats with the hex sheet metal screws?. cost? you cant use nylock nuts?
the centerline of the crank pulley, is at the same elevation as the bottom of the muffler skirt under the bumper....
someone in the background was laughing and making him feel stupid, while the guy on the phone said there
are no stupid questions...heh.
I can see what you guys are trying to do, but its a sod buster.
I wondered why the cross member was so low. Its a chin guard.
gregor played hell getting email responses from bostig too. the forum
was more responsive, and bostig discourages discussing problems there.
this was his first project, and he twisted in the wind over fitment for
eight months. He thought he had the wrong engine. It didnt fit. [november09] he got it running the third week in july, 2010.
sorry everybody--thats my experience-- |
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bostig
Samba Member
Joined: February 01, 2006
Posts: 235
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| Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 11:19 am Post subject: |
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| thummmper wrote: |
sorry everybody--thats my experience-- |
Sorry to hear about your experience of his experience. He is (as he asked and we told him) the longest duration install and the last in his group(9) to finish. We can't control what people do with their installs, nor how long it'll take, but we can make sure the docs are good, and make sure they get up and running, and if there is a system problem we can solve it.
We prefer the ticket system we have for support for a couple reasons. We don't use the forums because as helpful as people want to be, they often provide incorrect answers and information, and we need the feedback to be able to spot potential issues and aid in documentation correction. Additionally email isn't especially reliable as we get huge amounts of it, and sometimes(more often than I'd like) a genuine email gets spam filtered. Additionally, there is no "tracking" mechanism with email. It can fall through the cracks. The tickets can't and don't.
Of the tickets he submitted, the response time average for all of them was under 3.5 hrs. His feedback average for his tickets is 4 out of 5 stars.
I will locate the call, I remember it. I also remember him seeking out help on the core group and me asking him to use the ticket system for the reasons mentioned above. He did have trouble with some of the documentation, some of which was indeed missing or at fault, but some of it was clearly because he wasn't aware of it or hadn't read/watched, as to why I won't speculate and it isn't important.
I would ask him though in future if he's unhappy or dissatisfied to just let us know himself, and not to give high ratings for our support if he doesn't feel it's earned. Accuracy and feedback are what we use to build everything better, but we can't read minds, nor is it a given that 3rd party complaints made about us to a public forum would have gotten back to me had I not been paying attention to it. If it's just to vent frustration against us as a friend of his that's one thing, if it's in an attempt to solve an actual problem with the conversion it's not the most effective way to do it. As far as "twisting in the wind for 8 months about fitment", it's possible there is chassis variance but highly unlikely. Also considering we had no contact from him for 6 of those 8 months. We have over 230 installs on the road, and no similar sounding fitments issue. It does have to be setup/shimmed to height properly, but this is straightforward and takes 30 minutes - hour.
As far as the hex head sheet metal screws, sheet metal screws are commonly used for sheet metal. There is no access in the upper crossmember for locknuts, and on the coolant bottle bracket, if you were to use lock nuts, you'd need two people to install the bracket because you can't reach around to the other side of the wheelwell. We do consider cost for sure when choosing parts, but it is a combination of availability, simplicity, cost, durability, and performance that we're after. If you have a better design idea, let us know we always listen, but we don't skimp.
edit: found the call. I don't really think I should post it here and further hijack this thread, but I might post it on our site and link to it if people want to hear it. There isn't anything bad in it at all, there are a couple chuckles about him getting the award for being the longest running conversion, but he also laughs himself and also says "I actually haven't put that many hours into it" and the call is from July 1st, almost 9 months after the conversion was started. Sounds like good humor to me, not berating.
Jim
Last edited by bostig on Fri Aug 27, 2010 2:53 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Jon_slider
Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2007
Posts: 5091
Location: Santa Cruz, Crowdifornia
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| Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 11:39 am Post subject: |
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The wheel arches on my stock 85 2wd westy are 28" off the ground, and there is 10.5" of clearance to the engine carrier bar
The wheel arches on my syncro westy with subaru motor, syncro.org springs, and ome shocks are 31" off the ground, but there is only 9" of clearance to the skidplate rails.
wheel arch height is not directly related to ground clearance. The van with 3" taller arches has 1.5" LESS ground clearance... |
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Williamtaylor33
Samba Member
Joined: September 07, 2007
Posts: 1545
Location: Arkansas
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| Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 11:58 am Post subject: |
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| Jon_slider wrote: |
wheel arch height is not directly related to ground clearance. The van with 3" taller arches has 1.5" LESS ground clearance... |
wheel arch height IS related if your talking about the same engine. Are you saying if you add taller tires it will raise the wheel arch height but not add clearance to the engine?
_________________
89 Bostig powered syncro westy
Last edited by Williamtaylor33 on Sat Aug 28, 2010 5:07 am; edited 1 time in total |
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bostig
Samba Member
Joined: February 01, 2006
Posts: 235
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| Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Jon_slider wrote: |
wheel arch height is not directly related to ground clearance. The van with 3" taller arches has 1.5" LESS ground clearance... |
You want to eliminate variables and get the common denominator so you can find out what your specific ground clearance would be with the setup of your choice. You can put whatever tires on the van from 24.5 diameter all the way to 30.5, you can also put whatever combo of lift springs, drop springs, etc on the van. Heck you can have two identical setups with tire inflation differences that will change their ground clearance... so the best way to evaluate it is to eliminate all that mess, less variables.
Wheel arches relative to cradle mount points etc don't vary much across chassis to chassis, and if you determine the relationship between the chassis and the engine/cradle, then you can determine what your ground clearance would actually be if you had any combination or tires, springs etc etc that you want. So for instance I would be able to know the ground clearance of my white syncro passenger van with your engine combo in it if you give me clearance and wheel arch numbers... rather than hear that your clearance is 10.5" and say to myself "hey that's awesome 10.5" is a lot" even though in my case it might be only 8".
Jim |
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thummmper
Samba Member
Joined: November 25, 2009
Posts: 2015
Location: Meadow Valley, California Republic
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| Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2010 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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hey jim-- if you hit enter at the end of the text box, instead of endlessly
typing, we all get to avoid sidescrolling to encapsulate your narrative.
the tips of those screws tear flesh. no excuse. hard to reach? not really.
unless youre reaching around the oil pan, that is.
7 grand for a 4 cylinder...... |
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SeattleDownhill
Samba Member
Joined: July 29, 2009
Posts: 131
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 1:50 am Post subject: |
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Wow, so apparently this thread has nothing to do with what I was originally trying to figure out, and has turned into a Bostig bash party... WTF? Bostig is rad. It's not the setup for everyone, but it's a good clean realiable option that works well. I would go for it, but I don't have the ground clearance.
So.... If we could stop with the selfish ranting that would be great.
Back on topic now please?... |
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Volksaholic
Samba Member
Joined: December 26, 2005
Posts: 1771
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah, USA
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| Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 8:46 am Post subject: |
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| thummmper wrote: |
hey jim-- if you hit enter at the end of the text box, instead of endlessly
typing, we all get to avoid sidescrolling to encapsulate your narrative. |
Hey Todd, why don't you try changing your resolution? It doesn't seem to be a problem for anyone else. You can press F1 for help with that if you're not sure how, assuming you're running Windows. The automatic line break works fine for me... that's what it's there for.
Paul
_________________
1988 Wolfsburg Edition, 2001 Subaru EJ251 |
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Volksaholic
Samba Member
Joined: December 26, 2005
Posts: 1771
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah, USA
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| Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 8:49 am Post subject: |
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| SeattleDownhill wrote: |
Wow, so apparently this thread has nothing to do with what I was originally trying to figure out, and has turned into a Bostig bash party... WTF? Bostig is rad. It's not the setup for everyone, but it's a good clean realiable option that works well. I would go for it, but I don't have the ground clearance.
So.... If we could stop with the selfish ranting that would be great. |
You started a reasonable thread, and I haven't done the stats but I think around 99% of the discussion has been constructive and objective. There are always those who will get high marks academically and "unsatisfactory" in Citizenship. 
Paul
_________________
1988 Wolfsburg Edition, 2001 Subaru EJ251 |
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purplepeopleeater
Samba Member
Joined: July 23, 2005
Posts: 3117
Location: E. Washington
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| Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 9:42 am Post subject: |
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I have a nice big garage with a/c and about every tool you can imagine, I could afford to have a pro do it but I have chosen to get a partial kit and do it myself, I am going the subaru route as it has the most support for parts and the flat 4 just fits in the van.
And when and if I break down I will have a better understanding of my powerplant and will be able to troubleshoot issues....thus avoiding a good raping from a mechanic out on the road.
Bostig to me is a ton more simple though, and I think no matter where you had an issue you'd always be able to get parts. the motor is easy to work on too....I have done little research and can't comment on much. |
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thummmper
Samba Member
Joined: November 25, 2009
Posts: 2015
Location: Meadow Valley, California Republic
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| Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 11:20 am Post subject: |
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I did answer the question--I just dipped off on the shoulder. you guys
brought up the bostig deal, not me. I'm only negative when its negative.
If you have found a way to make ford power work, god bless..
that windstar engine is awesome. now thats worth violating the deck for. |
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bostig
Samba Member
Joined: February 01, 2006
Posts: 235
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| Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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| thummmper wrote: |
the tips of those screws tear flesh. no excuse. hard to reach? not really.
unless youre reaching around the oil pan, that is.
7 grand for a 4 cylinder...... |
Like I said and I'll repeat, the ones that go inside the upper crossmember you can't access for nuts or to tear flesh. The ones that hold the coolant bottle bracket are much easier to install using the sheet metal screws, I appreciate the opinion, but we won't be changing it to something that is both more difficult and no more effective. We've done lot's of installs, and supported lot's of people through them, so it shouldn't come as a surprise that our views may not match up, you are missing vast amounts of information and experience. The 4 cylinder is $500-$1000(brand new 0 mile crate engines for that price) not 7k, the whole conversion with the new engine is around 6.8k installed. You're not just buying an engine we've got lot's of people that have never even changed their own oil able to pull it off, high school students, a mobility impaired 70 year old, and a blind installer.
Jim |
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syncrodoka
Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2005
Posts: 12008
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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| Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| and a blind installer |
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