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Clip 010323157 on Direct/Reverse clutch : where to find+ bad TC?
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ALIKA T3
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:42 am    Post subject: Clip 010323157 on Direct/Reverse clutch : where to find+ bad TC? Reply with quote

Hello folks!

I got a couple questions for the automatic transmission gurus Wink

When the torque converter is drained, should I hear stuff moving inside when I shake it? How does one know if a TC is bad when not running?

I'm rebuilding a 090 automatic transmission and I read in the manual that the retaining clip thickness is critical in this assembly: it needs between 2.05 and 2.5 mm end play.
I don't know why but I have not even 1 mm of play with new steels and frictions so I need a thinner clip which is NLA everywhere. I was going to buy all dimensions available, 4 actually, since I have 2 other spare transmissions that needs rebuild at some point.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


How do you guys deal with that ?

Obviously my transmission was assembled like that ( was rebuilt at some point): I saw some bluish marks on the steels but it was working fine but the frictions were definitely thinner than the replacement ones. ( worn out or frictions from the Forward clutch assembly) to cheat.

Thanks for your help Smile
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pablum
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Clip 010323157 on Direct/Reverse clutch : where to find+ bad TC? Reply with quote

ALIKA T3 wrote:

When the torque converter is drained, should I hear stuff moving inside when I shake it? How does one know if a TC is bad when not running?


No guru, but that there is a big NO. I was strongly urged to replace my TC, because things end up in there and come out after the rebuild to wreak havoc in your fresh rebuild.

ALIKA T3 wrote:

Obviously my transmission was assembled like that ( was rebuilt at some point): I saw some bluish marks on the steels but it was working fine but the frictions were definitely thinner than the replacement ones. ( worn out or frictions from the Forward clutch assembly) to cheat.


I didn't have to deal with what is obviously someone's work around. But if you have others lying around why not swap around?
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MarkWard
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Clip 010323157 on Direct/Reverse clutch : where to find+ bad TC? Reply with quote

Hello, I would recount your steel and fibers that you removed. The overhaul kits come with more than you need to cover different versions. Some used bundles of 4 others used bundles of 5. I count 5 each in your picture.

Pay close attention to page 38.17 Forward Clutch. I recall that a thrust plate and friction plate are installed from the bottom of the ring gear. The others stack on top. Also pay attention to 38.19. Direct and Reverse clutch. Notice the manual shows 4 steels and 4 fibers.

It's possible a previous rebuild was not done properly. mark
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ALIKA T3
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Clip 010323157 on Direct/Reverse clutch : where to find+ bad TC? Reply with quote

pablum wrote:
ALIKA T3 wrote:

When the torque converter is drained, should I hear stuff moving inside when I shake it? How does one know if a TC is bad when not running?


No guru, but that there is a big NO. I was strongly urged to replace my TC, because things end up in there and come out after the rebuild to wreak havoc in your fresh rebuild.

ALIKA T3 wrote:

Obviously my transmission was assembled like that ( was rebuilt at some point): I saw some bluish marks on the steels but it was working fine but the frictions were definitely thinner than the replacement ones. ( worn out or frictions from the Forward clutch assembly) to cheat.


I didn't have to deal with what is obviously someone's work around. But if you have others lying around why not swap around?


Thanks man!

The thing is I cannot take the other trannies apart now to see if the clip would fit :/

The thing that moves inside the TC feels like a big heavy bulk, maybe it's normal? I tried on another one that still have oil inside, something moves inside too, but prolly cushioned by the oil .... I dunno if anything at all is supposed to move or not.

For the clip, that really sucks timing wise Sad
Crazy it's all NLA :/
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AtlasShrugged
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Clip 010323157 on Direct/Reverse clutch : where to find+ bad TC? Reply with quote

Jim Ellis Porsche parts has the clips (lock ring)..between $6.47 and $2.32 each.

http://www.porscheatlantaperimeterparts.com/productSearch.aspx?searchTerm=010323157

The "A" part number is 1.50mm thick

The "H" part number is 2.30 thick

The "J" part number is 2.50 thick

Do replace your torque converter..the rattle is normal..the junk captured inside could be a problem.


Last edited by AtlasShrugged on Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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pablum
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Clip 010323157 on Direct/Reverse clutch : where to find+ bad TC? Reply with quote

Mark has it there: you have 5 steels in your pack.

Oddly, the atsg techtran manual indicates steel/friction/steel/steel/friction/pressure, i.e., 3 steels and two frictions. maybe for a rabbit?

(edit: that above is for the 003. for the 010 it's 5 steels and 3 frictions PICTURED, with two steels between each friction. That's certainly NOT the setup for the vanagon 010)
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AtlasShrugged
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Clip 010323157 on Direct/Reverse clutch : where to find+ bad TC? Reply with quote

Should be 4 plus 4, according to the book

Be sure you are using the correct frictions..there are two types with different patterns and thick thicknesses.

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Last edited by AtlasShrugged on Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ALIKA T3
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Clip 010323157 on Direct/Reverse clutch : where to find+ bad TC? Reply with quote

AtlasShrugged wrote:
Jim Ellis Porsche parts has the clips (lock ring)..between $6.47 and $2.32 each.

http://www.porscheatlantaperimeterparts.com/productSearch.aspx?searchTerm=010323157

The "A" part number is 1.50mm thick

The "H" part number is 2.30 thick

The "J" part number is 2.50 thick

Do replace your torque converter..the rattle is normal..the junk captured inside could be a problem.


Thanks man, but when I looked earlier it said NLA??

The TC was clean, I'll give it a shot, I got 3 to try, shipping is killing me to Hawaii :/
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AtlasShrugged
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Clip 010323157 on Direct/Reverse clutch : where to find+ bad TC? Reply with quote

Is if the Porsche dealer there can get the same part number for you..and save shipping?

Auto Zone there in Hawaii has a torque converter for $200..part number VW2

Try CarQuest too...torque converters are not rocket science. A quality reman is important.


Last edited by AtlasShrugged on Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ALIKA T3
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Clip 010323157 on Direct/Reverse clutch : where to find+ bad TC? Reply with quote

AtlasShrugged wrote:
Should be 4 plus 4, according to the book

Be sure you are using the correct frictions..there are two types with different patterns and thick thicknesses.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Ha!

These MF!! That's why!! I thought it was thick and maybe I could cheat somewhere, but one extra ? Wow!

I will have to look at it again Thursday, I'm camping at work right now, lol Wink

The frictions I used were in the 65006D kit, the thick ones, 0.090" according to Kourt. The pattern was definitely different than the ones in there, but what can I trust now Sad

Thank you so much for the good advice:)

Aloha!
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ALIKA T3
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Clip 010323157 on Direct/Reverse clutch : where to find+ bad TC? Reply with quote

AtlasShrugged wrote:
Auto Zone there in Hawaii has a torque converter for $200..part number VW2

Try CarQuest too...torque converters are not rocket science. A quality reman is important.


Great news, I never look at flaps here, such a joke, lost the reflex after lots of disappointment

Edit: I knew it, none at the flaps here. Autozone is on another island, Napa, Carquest, Oreilly nobody has it.
Old one will do....
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Last edited by ALIKA T3 on Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Clip 010323157 on Direct/Reverse clutch : where to find+ bad TC? Reply with quote

Raybestos friction plates are .089 thickness for the D/R and .062 forward clutch..and..the friction patterns are different.
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ALIKA T3
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 7:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Clip 010323157 on Direct/Reverse clutch : where to find+ bad TC? Reply with quote

AtlasShrugged wrote:
Raybestos friction plates are .089 thickness for the D/R and .062 forward clutch..and..the friction patterns are different.


Perfect, I did sort hem by thickness, and put the thick ones in the D/R location.
Hopefully, I will be fine. Less than 1mm play plus the space freed by that extra steel should do it Smile

Thank you all so much again, I would have never noticed easily....
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