Front end rebuild.

[Sid Vicious]

I've got a 5.5" narrowed adjustable beam in my 66(ball joint). No shocks. Wide 5 disc brake kit with drop spindles. When I put the beam back together, the old bearings seemed fine, nice & tight, moved easy, etc.

A few months down the road and the torsion arms are 'sloppy' in the end of the beam. I'm going to rebuild the entire front suspension because we have a road trip coming up(Chirco's Bugtoberfest in Tucson) and I'm not one to take chances(bald faced lie).

The other things I've noticed about my beam- and I know this isn't a perfect world- is that the front end is 'wobbly'. When I drive through a rolling dip the car pitches from side to side quite a bit. Like a rocking horse motion, but from left to right. It's more sever at freeway speed and the other day I actually hurried off the freeway because it scared the shit outta me. Any ideas what would cause that?

Other question: Should I stick with bearings or opt for the silicone bushings for the ends of the beam? I know the bushings would stiffen the ride, and that's ok. Is there any other downside to them?

Does anyone know a good shop in the PHX metro that aligns old, lowered cars?

What other parts & supplies will I need?

Bushings or bearings
Clearanced ball joints
New eccentric nuts

[teuton]

Not having shocks probably leads to instability problems. Does the car have shims to correct for castor due to lowering?

Here's what you'll need to get it handling properly:

stock beam
stock spindles
inner and outer roller bearing sets of good quality
needle bearing set
micarta inner bushing set
set of oil shock absorbers
anti-sway bar
good four wheel alignment
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1965 VW Beetle

[Sid Vicious]

Thanks for the awesome post. I know what I would need to return it back to stock. That's not the idea here. Not having shocks does indeed NOT lead to instability problems. I've ridden in one hundred cars that run no shocks that don't have any sort of the problem my car is currently having.

My roommate's 62 Bug, for instance, has a 6" narrowed, adjustable beam, no shocks, lowered two outer clicks in the rear. Handles like a dream. It's stiff and has very little travel, which is what I'm after. It handles bumps VERY well, doesn't bump steer at all and turns well.

My car bounces, jolts and shimmies all over the place. My questions were not 'How do I make my car handle like stock?', but 'Does anyone know why it would be doing this(besides the things I listed in my OP)?' and 'What might I need (besides the things I listed in my post) for parts to rebuild the front end?'

I know my car won't handle like a stock suspended car, that's exactly what I'm going for. Except for the side-to-side wobble, it almost handles like stock now. And by that I mean lots of travel. I'm trying to make it better than it is now.

[61SNRF]

Apples and oranges.
Your friends '62 is link-pin. You can set those up tight to act like a built in friction shock, you just tighten them up to dampen the oscillations.
A ball joint has no such built in friction adjustment. The springs are free to bounce willy-nilly when you hit a bump. When your car bounces it also changes the toe and camber as it goes up and down. With this, and any kind of loose, bent or stiff component in the assembly can cause the steering to alter during motion.

[drscope]

The narrow beam screws up the ackerman.

The shorter torsion leaves stiffen the spring rate.

No shocks means there is nothing to dampen the movement of the suspension and keep the wheels on the ground.

You haven't mentioned (or I missed it) if you have caster shims or not - they would help.

A lot of your troubles may in fact be rear wheel alignment issues, but if your front toe settings are not correct, then you will also have issues.

I don't care what you are trying to kid yourself into believeing about other cars running low, narrowed and no shocks - It just will not work!

It can't! You have so many things happening outside of the design parameters that it just can NOT ride well and handle well.

There isn't much you can do about ackerman. No body sells steering arms to compensate for that.

But you do need to start with the obvious - toe and camber up front. Make sure your camber settings are good.

You want ZERO to 1 degree of POSITIVE camber up front.

And you want 1/16 to 1/8 inch of TOE IN.

You may also want to get under there and make sure ALL your grub screws are tight.

As for your wobbly rocking horse....well since there is nothing to control or dampen the suspension movement, it is possible for the front wheels to develope a harmonic imbalance. That harmonic imbalance along with the gyroscopic nature of the spinning wheels can certainly cause you to pee your pants!

it would really be in your best interest to try to get shocks on there. Use your imagination and don't just drink the KoolAid! You can install shocks on your front end and they will help A BUNCH!
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Mother Nature is a Mean Evil Bitch!

[Sid Vicious]

Forgot the mention, Doc... I do indeed have caster shims installed since my car has a decent rake.

Thanks for the real answers. Is there a way I can set my beam adjustments best to use the act/counteract of the torsions? I've seen all kinds of ideas, and don't know which to try first. The toe in is what's killing me- I just can't seem to get the adjustment dialed in right. I've got the camber worked out, though.

Thanks 61SNRF. Once I get everything out that's old & worn, it should be a lot better.

[andk5591]

Did you say the that car is aligned or not? Check front toe - should be in about 1/8". Grab 2 tape measures and a couple chunks of wood or metal bar and see what you have.

I had exactly what you described on my 65 ( I set the toe myself and not sure what I was drinking at the time) and later checked it and I had it way off - adjusted and it is now fine.
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them...

[teuton]

You're welcome.
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1965 VW Beetle

[drscope]

One problem with trying to do the alignment when the car is low is you can't get the tape measure up where it needs to go under the car!

Another way to do this is to "string" it. You need 4 jack stands (or other heavy items to tie your string to.

Find a nice big level place to work. Straighten the wheel as best you can. Then set your jack stands outbord at each corner of the car.

On each side, tie your string from the front stand to the back stand.

Then you want to move your jack stands until you have the string just touching the front tire on the rear side. (OK, this works better on other cars that don't have fenders! And it's really difficult on a car with a narrow beam AND fenders).

On the VW, you may need to make up a few spacer boards ALL the same width to hold against the tire and you will need a helper or two.

Anyway, if you can get the string to just touch the rear of the tire, then move the front jack stand until the string is just touching the front side of the tire - basically, you are making the strings parrallel with the tire.

Then you can see what is going on.

And once you have your strings set, you can use a tape measure to measure from the string to the tire.
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Mother Nature is a Mean Evil Bitch!

[Sid Vicious]

Thanks Doc- I'm gonna pull he fenders today.

[downsbs]

Mine is pretty low and I just use a tape measurer and take my time. It is pretty easy, just time consuming when you do it by yourself. My car tracks straight and handle very well. I have a narrowed beam too, so it is possible despite what some nay sayers may tell you.
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1956 Rag W/ Semaphores

[Chalklinedetail]

[machinewsi]

As far as alighnment goes, I drove my car up on those little ramps (you know... the ones that people typically use to crush themselvs when they crawl under the car.), place some jack stands under the car just in case, then used the tape measure methode and worked great.
As far as the side to side, do you mean a violent motion? Like perhaps the steering dampner is in need of replacement? Just a thought...

[-doomed-]

I usually align cars with tape measures. I need to align my 67 since and it's pretty hammered.
Despite what Drscope says you can still use this method when the car is hammered but you'll have to alter the method and possibly try a few times to get it right.
I'm not saying drscope is wrong , he is right , lowered cars ride like they're lowered watercooled or air alll of my cars have been hammered but I've aligned them with a tape measure and gotten a car that tracks straight and doesn't eat tires everytime.

Stock will handle best on a beetle since that is how it was designed, lowered will feel like it " handles" better when it really doesn't.

Break out the tape measure and have at it , a misaligned front end will make the car feel sloppy when its really low.

[andk5591]

[KRACKERSinc]

Ive got a 74' bug that's lowered 5" in the front. And the front wheel sits 15" farther forward. And it has air shocks. Of course its a stiff ride. But i expected that when i lowered it. It does good until it decides to shoot across lanes. Everything is tight including my steering. I don't get it. The steering wheel doesnt move when this happens. Except of course when try to get back in my lane.[/b]