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Doc gets a Zetec
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trihartsfield
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I actually spoke with the guys at Bostig and they said between 19-21 mpg.
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Williamtaylor33
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That was typically what I saw.
But when I would have a tank of all highway miles I saw 23.5 mpg a few times.
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boulderdrop
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Damn, doing my Bostig install was the most fun I've had working on the van! I was in Group 10, so I don't have that shiny billet-intake.. but prior to doing the install, I knew nothing about an engine and never really turned a wrench. It was really, really fun. The videos were really great, but the manual and video were a bit out of sync. Plus, several times I had extra parts.

Mileage: I've been tracking it pretty closely this past couple weeks, as I fixed a vacuum leak. I'm running 17.5 mpg with almost all of it highway miles and towing a small sailboat (about 500 lbs with the trailer) up and down mountain passes. I'm sure it'll be better with less vigorous terrain, but the engine has been performing like a champ.

I dropped a rebuilt transaxle into it, with a taller 3rd from AA-Transaxle. If I was to do it over again, I might do a shorter 4th too. As, it sometimes lugs and a stock 4th with my tires at red-line is somewhere just about 100 mph. Often I max out 3rd in the pass, with about 65 mph... but have to keep it in 3rd as 4th drops the rpms a little low for me. But that's not really a rant, it's just a "I wish". It's still awesome.

Good luck on the install and enjoy it!
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Destructo
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've averaged in between 19-23 MPG, all depends on the weather outside. This weekend I travelled from Central NY to Mass on I-90. With a slight tailwind I got hella good MPGs and this was with my van loaded with me, my giant of a brother and all his tree service gear plus our camping gear. It was about 23-24mpg overall.
I love a good Zetec conversion thread. You'll love it the first time you fire it up!
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vanis13
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

when I emailed Bostig on this Q below was their response. seems like a 19 % to 38% increase for somone now seeing 16mpg on their stock engine. I wonder why they don't advertise that on their site. maybe to avoid somone complaining if they happen to get 18.7 one day....


1 - do you have any info on MPG for 2wd  manual vanagon w/this conversion?

1) 19-22

2 – is the stock 4sp manual tranny a good fit for this engine from a performance/highway cruise at 75mph view point?  are other trannys supported or a good conversion to do while doing this engine install?

2) The stock gearing is setup well for the stock zetec, the cruise rpms at 75 are slightly higher than most people would like, but the vanagon was never designed to cruise at 75 mph, and indeed 75/85 is the very upper limits of safe cruising in the vanagon for brakes and stability reasons. We recommend the bone stock trans. The more you can keep stock and not molest the better(and cheaper) you're better off in the long run if you want to cruise fast upgrading brakes, power output(for example the turbo) and then running larger diameter tires..
that way you can keep the trans stock for the rest of it's life, and if/when it comes time to replace you can just grab another stock rebuild or used unit
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One more islander...
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, this is a really dumb question, but what, exactly, comes from Bostig and what from somewhere else?

When I looked at the Bostig website, I got the impression that they supplied the engine as well as the harnesses, etc. I think I understand from this thread that you buy the engine yourself elsewhere; is that right? Can you go either way and just buy part of the install from Bostig?

The Bostig sounds like a really attractive choice for replacing the Wasserboxer. I suspect we'll be doing it in a couple of years.

----

Kathy
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boulderdrop
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You buy the kit from Bostig (which includes mosts everything, but the engine and what is considered to be part of the engine), then purchase all of the things on the requirement-sheet.

One of the items you need to buy the Zetec engine. Bostig will sometimes have new ones, other times you buy it yourself. I think they purposefully give you the option, as there's nothing wrong with finding a used one with low-miles and save yourself a few hundred bucks on the total conversion.
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Ranger Shad
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 5:40 pm    Post subject: Day 3 - Engine build-up Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Torquing down the custom flywheel. Note the video on the laptop.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

The High Capacity Oil Pan installed.

Today I worked on building-up the new Zetec for installation. I installed sub-kit A, which is the transmission attachment bracket, the custom flywheel, and the clutch assembly. This went easily, with excellent documentation, both written and video.
The 2010 version of the Bostig kit includes the High Capacity Oil Pan (HCOP) as part of the basic kit, it used to be an extra. I decided to install the HCOP next. The turned out to be more difficult than I had invisioned, not because of any technical difficulty, but because of the location of some of the nuts. The HCOP replaces the original oil pan, it adds capacity and increases the road clearance of the engine. To do this it has been designed wider and flatter and requires some of the fasteners to be installed within the pan through a small opening in the bottom. The HCOP is of a much thicker guage of steel and is powder coated, a quality piece of hardware. 2 of the internal fastenings are very hard to reach, and consequently very difficult to maneuver into place and turn. I had to improvise some tools (with wrenches and tape) to assist. This part of the installation took far longer than I planned. I spent over 3 hours installing the HCOP (this included a dry run, as recommended by Bostig). Fat fingers don't help. I believe the HCOP is a worthwhile addition, adding oil capacity can only be a benefit.

The following link takes you to my photo web site with new additional photos: http://yachtmaya.smugmug.com/photos/swfpopup.mg?AlbumID=13563772&AlbumKey=UrVzb

Someone asked about what is included in the kit. The Bostig kit ($4800) comes in 11 boxes and includes almost everything needed except the Zetec engine (used $400-$700, new $900) and an assortment of parts and pieces ($400). So far I have been impressed with the quality and workmanship of the materials. To this point the documentation (instructions) both written and video have been consise and useful. I believe anyone could do this conversion even if they had little or no experience do vehicle maintenance.
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boulderdrop
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 8:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Day 3 - Engine build-up Reply with quote

Dude, nice work doing the HCOP right away though. I didn't do mine while the engine was hanging. Total PITA to do under the van, post install with 2k miles and feeling lazy.

Ranger Shad wrote:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

The High Capacity Oil Pan installed.
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Ranger Shad
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 7:02 pm    Post subject: Day 3 1/2 Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Rear engine mount and thermostat housing sub-kits installed.

RULE #9: Never go by work on your day off. Well I broke Rule #9 this morning and got roped into working most of the day. I only got about 3 hours this PM to put a couple of sub-kits on the engine. The cooling sub-kit C is the assembly and installation of the thermostat housing and the cooling hoses (which I didn't do yet). Straight forward procedures and once again well documented. I also completed sub-kit M, the engine mounts. The 2010 version of the Bostig conversion has a newly designed rear mount. The new mount is a robust 3-piece structure of heavy guage steel and is powder coated. This is a massively strong looking piece of gear and I believe will standup well. The new mount is also able to add a strong skid plate if one so desires.

The following link takes you to my photo web site with new additional photos: http://yachtmaya.smugmug.com/photos/swfpopup.mg?AlbumID=13563772&AlbumKey=UrVzb
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boulderdrop
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 7:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Day 3 1/2 Reply with quote

Ranger Shad wrote:
The 2010 version of the Bostig conversion has a newly designed rear mount. The new mount is a robust 3-piece structure of heavy guage steel and is powder coated. This is a massively strong looking piece of gear and I believe will standup well. The new mount is also able to add a strong skid plate if one so desires.


I was just talking to Jim at Bostig today about buying the new cradle to retrofit my Group10 install with your cradle. I guess it increases clearance by up to 2", which would be sweet. But I'd also like to do the skidplate and I have the old rear-mounts and I'm worried that I won't be able to add the skidplate without doing them too.

Q: Does the design of the new cradle really look and seem like those are going to be two of the required attachment points?

Q: My rear-mount-points are a hinged piece of metal, like a door-hinge, and is attached to the van with ~5 sheet-metal screws. How robust is your attachment to the rear of the van?

My only bing choice was the optional heat-shield with the Bostig logo. So, it's got a layer of "fiberglass like" material sandwiched between two pieces of metal. But after a long drive to now-where's-ville, it certainly heats up the westy z-bed.

Q: What was the reason for doing the heat-wrap and paint on the headers and muffler? Was to obtain the same effect and be able to use the stock heat-shield? My crate-engine didn't come with it (and several other things).
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Ranger Shad
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 8:26 pm    Post subject: Questions Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Rear mount of Bostig Conversion

Boulderdrop, I'm not sure I can help with the attachment point question. I'm not really familiar with the older cradle. Jim would be a better source of info. I will post some additional photos of the front mount and the shock mounts. Perhaps that will help.
The photo shows the rear mount and it is attached with 7 large self- tapping bolts (not sure of the size, will find out) to the frame around the engine hatch.
I decided to do the heat wrap as an experiment, and for appearance. I bought a crate engine w/o the heat shield and had to buy the shield at a junk yard. I have used paint alone in the past and it doesn't last and doesn't do anything for heat. Jim did mention some considerations about heat wrap, look back acouple of posts in this topics. I will probably add the Bostig heat shield eventually.
Its late here on the east coast I will add those photos tomorrow.
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Tarooka
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 9:39 pm    Post subject: Lurking and Cheer Leading Too Reply with quote

Excellent story and posts. Enough for me to ponder out my "California" issue.

I do have a question about the heat wrap around the manifold and cat; will this help? I was under the impression these items needed to breathe and the wrap woulld cause undo heat build up at varios components.

It may b a dumb question, but I would really like to understand the physics.

Thanks again - great pics!
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

X2 on the great write up and photos. I'm on the fence and having trouble trying to decide between the Zetec or Suby 2.5. The Zetec is looking pretty nice and the install looks like it is coming together fairly easy for you. Good luck with the rest of the install.
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One more islander...
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

X3 on the terrific write-up with details!

"You buy the kit from Bostig (which includes mosts everything, but the engine and what is considered to be part of the engine), then purchase all of the things on the requirement-sheet."

Also, thanks Boulderdrop, for your quick and clear reply.

---

Kathy

88 Westy
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John Sullivan
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see all the wrap that you have on the pipes and muffler and I wonder where all the heat is going to go. I have a group 10 Bostig and it runs great, but there is alot of heat generated. I have the Bostig heat shield but that leaves the bottom open for heat to get out. I had to build a heat shield to protect the AC compressor from the muffler and CAT heat. I also put heat shielding sleeves over the coolant hose that runs above the muffler and over the ac hoses to the compressor. I would not wrap all that heat in, it's got to go somewhere. Probably raise the head temperatures and put a greater load on the cooling system.
I recently drove across the WV mountains in 98 degree weather with the AC on and everything worked very well. The coolant was running a bit high on the guage when climbing, came back down on the down hill.
Just some thoughts.
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240Gordy
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Sullivan wrote:
I see all the wrap that you have on the pipes and muffler and I wonder where all the heat is going to go.


out the tailpipe
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Ranger Shad
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 6:45 pm    Post subject: Day 4 Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

The engine is ready for installation in "Doc". Belt set-up currently bypasses the A/C compressor till the hoses are spliced and the system is charged.

Today I finished the Zetec engine build-up and attached the transmission, which was rebuilt by AA Transaxle (with a taller 3rd). I finished the fuel injection system and installed the shiney intake manifold and the throttle body. The cooling hoses were cut to size and installed. The accessory belt was installed. And the transmission was prepped and attached. None of this was difficult or created any problems.

During the course of the build-up I have had several minor issues that have slowed me down or created some anxiety. The new alternator I bought didn't have a pulley (although I thought it did), I bought a pulley that didn't fit. I did all this over the net, with a trip to the Ford dealer who was unable to help. Today I went to a local parts house and bought another new alternator (with a pulley). I'm sure I can return the first one. The Bostig guys recommend that you buy your alternator from a junkyard or a local parts supply. Good advice. As always when all else fails read the instructions (and do as they say). I also broke a hydraulic hose. I ordered a new one and it hasn't come. So tomorrow I will install the engine and do the first run but we won't be going anywhere till Monday. Little things in an otherwise easy and well thought out conversion. None of my issues have anything to do with the Bostig kit.

The heat wrap thing: This is a minor controversy, I have used heat wrap on other cars, and the exhaust system of my sailboat is heat wraped including the exhaust manifold. If you are interested in the theory google it, there is more information out there than I care to repeat. Heat wrap and ceramic exhaust coating are used on racing cars and bikes as well as small aircraft. I have never had any problems with it. The use on "Doc" is mostly an experiment to see is I can keep the engine compartment temps down. If I find that my CHT are high I will remove it. Simple enough.

The following link takes you to my photo web site with new additional photos: http://yachtmaya.smugmug.com/Cars/Bostig-Zetec-Conversion/13563772_UrVzb#988833822_L9BpE
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Williamtaylor33
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ranger Shad- fwiw: I bought a alternator at an auto zone and it comes with a lifetime replacement warranty. And there's auto zones all over the us and Mexico. Well worth the extra cost in my Mind.
My first alternator was from a junk yard. It didn't last long.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 6:20 pm    Post subject: Another 1/2 day = Day 4 1/2 Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Discarded wiring and associated electrical components from waterboxer ignition and fuel injection system.

Slow going today. I had planned to install the engine today but this morning it was raining like crazy and continued to do so till shortly afternoon. Then the clouds parted, the sun came out, and the temps zoom up into the high 80's. Now I like a sauna, and I like working on my Westy, but working on "Doc" in a sauna is more than I can bear. With the ground still soaking wet and the temps high the humidity was around 100% most of the day. I tried to work on little projects to keep up the pace. Today I installed the custom throttle cable, sorted out the old wiring and labeled the pieces than stay before stripping out the old, and installed the coolant recovery bottle. I also filled the engine and tranny with lubricant. And that was all I could stand.

There should be no reason I can't do the final install and first run tomorrow. Last night I down-loaded the tune file and the other files for the initial start. Bostig requires that you data log the first start and run on the provided OBDII device and then down load the file to them to certify your warranty. This allows the Bostig team to verify that you haven't done anything wrong. Seems like a good idea. Tomorrow should be exciting.

The following link takes you to my photo web site with new additional photos: http://yachtmaya.smugmug.com/Cars/Bostig-Zetec-Conversion/13563772_UrVzb#988833822_L9BpE
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Last edited by Ranger Shad on Mon Sep 13, 2010 7:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
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