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Doc gets a Zetec
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buildyourown
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave,
Keep us posted on what you here back from Bostig or if you try out this airbox mounting strategy. It does seem to make a little more sense than the chopping and bending that Bostig recommends, but I also suspect they have their motives.
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BillM
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The factory snorkel has a drip point at the bottom so any moisture
can drip out. It's not huge hole so your probley right that much
doesnt get in there. My box is just drilled on the bottom
I left enough plastic to act as legs to keep a space below it.
I just had it shoved into the space behind the light. It stays well
and is easy to pull out and service. I do know that Brady did some
work on it when they had it in their shop last winter but I
think that was just to clean up where I uses duct tape on one
corner cause I didn't remove enough for the box to fit the first
time. I always meant to go back and weld it up but forgot.

I have a 2wd and started with a new crate motor. Went with the
HC oil pan from the start as I likes it's construction. I also have
the dual starter option for nothing more than the novelty of it.
I do notice the Honda starter turn the motor over faster.
The bulkhead I am talking about is the firewall just in front
of the engine that used to have the crappy plastic fuel
fitting bolted onto it that was known to fail. You will
route the big black intake hose from the throttle body over
to the airbox under it. I trimmed this panel up so it was easier
to run that hose under. Not really needed but I feel it also opens
things up a bit. Help get some of the heat out of there.
I think I have pictures of my set up before the turbo install. It's
all different now. Plus the fans on my drivers side for the intercooler
keep the engine cover temps down as a positive side effect.
I'll look for pictures.
Just remember if you ever have any questions that Jim and Brady
WANT you to call them. It not only helps them fine tune their
product but they have seen just about everything with the number
of installs on the books.
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Brungeman
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Bill.
I just know from past experiences that some intake/exhaust systems like a little back preasure etc. But when I think about it, that was mostly with carb. model motors... an electronic fuel injection system should monitor and account for any of that!?!

I think if that airbox is slightly suspended, you shouldn't have a real problem with moisture. He has it pretty well isolated from the engine, and as far as moisture from the outside, I don't think you would get that much more than if you had the snorkel feeding the motor.

Do you have a 2wd or Syncro? how did you connect your snorkel? did you omit that plastic elbo in the bottom and connect the flex pip to it? or did you trim and morph the elbo down a bit and make the connection?

as far as the bulkhead, is that in reference to the airbox install? and which bulkhead are you talking about? the firewall, or the area above the wheel well/pocket behind the tail light?

and I agree, don't think I will ever have a van that I drive with a VW boxer in it again. Plenty of better options out there! I want miles of smiles... that means not looking down at guages ever 6 tenths of a mile! Wink
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BillM
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dont know about the system needing restriction. I would
think as little restriction as possible is the goal. The only
problem I see with shads airfiter install is the filter getting
soaked from rainwater/snow. I don't know how much
water is forced into that vent when were driving. I have
mine pointed town with no issues and it supplies enough
air for the boosted version. Send him an email and see if
he has had any issues. I am sure he would have had
trouble by now if it was going to get wet. It does make
for a clean looking install. Also don't be afraid to
trim your bulkhead to make the intake hose fit. I fought
it the first time till I just got brave and trimmed away. I'll
never put a stock motor into my van again anyways.
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Brungeman
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So what would the downfall of mounting the airbox the way Ranger Shad did?

The large opening in the bottom would be less restrictive and the ease of changing filters etc would be great! BUT, does the system need restriction?

would attaching the airbox to the snorkel offer too much restriction?

would the open bottom have too much intake throat?

Just brainstorming. I am at the point in my install to make the choice of which way to go!

Dave
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ithinkso
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 1:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the info. I'm in the middle of my bostig install right now into a van that looks similar to yours. Can't wait to get it up and running.
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thummmper
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nice job. nice presentation. It's good to see the incremental improvements with each group. that cross member is much better now
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Ranger Shad
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 7:28 pm    Post subject: Last Entry (maybe) Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Doc at downtown Beaufort, NC Feb 2010 unusual snowstorm

I've been meaning to make this entry (and several people have asked), but I was waiting to do a long trip to get a highway MPG. It looks like I will be making a long trip soon (we are moving to south Georgia) but I will be pretty busy for awhile. I just passed 2000 miles on the Bostig conversion.

Here are some stats:
Gear Speeds:
AAA Transaxle rebuild with taller 3rd
1st to 2nd - 0-15 mph
2nd to 3rd - 15-30/33 mph
3rd to 4th - 30-45/50 mph
4th - 45-85 mph (fastest I was willing to go)
These upper speeds are the shift point, purely arbitrary. They just feel and sound right.

Speeds and RPM's:
3rd gear at 35 mph = 2950 RPM
3rd gear at 40 mph = 3450 RPM
4th gear at 45 mph = 2750 RPM
4th gear at 60 mph = 3750 RPM
4th gear at 70 mph = 4050 RPM
I'm running 205/65-16 tires. The speeds are GPS and very close to speedo. I took these RPM numbers from a OBD II monitor. The RPM's were rounded up or down so there maybe some discrepancy with computations.

MPG:
Around town (stop and go) I am averaging 19.2-19.8 MPG.
No highway data yet.

Acceleration:
0-60 mph - 15-18 seconds (not breath taking, but it is a heavy steel box)

Subjective Impressions:
I love it! Doc has a reasonable amount of power, improved MPG's, and a feeling of reliability (although a new waterboxer would probably be reliable too). I no longer feel like I have to carry a full rebuild toolkit everywhere I go, although I still do (old habits die hard). I can now accelerate uphill, pass other vehicles at cruise speeds (50-60) on 2 lane roads, and pull out into traffic and merge quickly.
I have had no significant problems with the Bostig conversion. The only issues were related to defective parts not supplied by Bostig.
There have been some questions about noise levels. I have not noticed an increase in engine noise. I can hold a conversation at normal volumes.
I feel it's the best thing I have ever done for any of the VW buses and vans I have owned (6 since 1970), and I would do it again.
I will do one more entry covering costs and hours for the conversion.
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1980 Whitby 42 Ketch "Maya"
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Ranger Shad
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 8:00 pm    Post subject: Update #1 Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Stainless Steel Exhaust System Cover installed.

A couple of updates; the folks at Bostig strongly suggested I replace the ceramic heat fabric under the engine cover plate I had mistakenly placed inside the engine exhaust manifold shield. They even sent the fabric without charge. This was a simple fix and didn't take very long. I also received their stainless steel exhaust system cover as a gift and installed this. In theory this looks like a simple install. The issue I had was that I had heat wrapped the entire exhaust system, and this wrap interfered with the installation of the cover. Also a couple of welded nuts that hold the cover in place on the exhaust manifold broke off. Both of these issues complicated the install and add a little time and forced me to improvise part of the installation. The jury is still out on the heat wrap, I would suggest that if you intend to add the Bostig Exhaust Cover you do not do the heat wrap. Actually I can't suggest the heat wrap at all, if you follow my lead you are on your own.

I haven't done any of the stats yet (price, hours, performance). I just passed 600 miles and the performance is up to expectations, the last fill-up I averaged 19.8 MPG with in-town driving. My best in-town milage with the waterboxer was 17.6 MPG. I also really like the taller 3rd gear on the AA Transaxle rebuild. More soon.

The following link takes you to my photo web site with new additional photos: http://yachtmaya.smugmug.com/Cars/Bostig-Zetec-Conversion/13563772_UrVzb#988833822_L9BpE

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

"Doc" is ready for a longer trip.
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Tarooka
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 10:31 pm    Post subject: Hurah! Reply with quote

Nice ending and again, thank you for the detailed posts. I am looking forward to your final summary with costs and time expended.

I have the opportunity to buy a completed restored Carat for approximately $13K, but realize what I want to do is replicate your hands on experience. Yes, something in a stock configuration is OK, but then we have the overall reliability issue; I want something I can drive 5,000 miles without worry and a stock VW is not "it".

I guess I buy the Bostig Kool Aid and your posts ratify that feeling.

Good Job! Laughing
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epaddler
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great writeup. I hope you post your gas mileage after you drive it a bit and also more driving impressions.
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Ranger Shad
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 4:57 pm    Post subject: Questions Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Engine height under oilpan and motor mount.

The minimum height under the engine is 7 inches at the massive 1/4 thick steel motor mount, 7 1/2 to the oilpan. I have Air Lift air shocks installed inside the rear springs. When the photo was taken the air shocks were not inflated. When inflated the air shocks add about 1 - 1 1/2 inches to the rear height. I also have 16 inch tires.

The Zetec sticker came from Ebay. I also have "Zetec Inside" stickers, the ones that are a take-off on Intel Inside. I just can't decide where to put them yet.

CJ, I will add another photo of the rear end and measure the height soon.

The following link takes you to my photo web site with new additional photos: http://yachtmaya.smugmug.com/Cars/Bostig-Zetec-Conversion/13563772_UrVzb#988833822_L9BpE
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ShootingFish
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Go to RangerShad's install page, and the final photo is of the engine install with a ruler measuring to the bottom of the cradle... 7 1/2 inches I think.

SF



climberjohn wrote:
Your photos, esp. the annotations/comments, are SUPERB!!!

Thanks for documenting this project so well.

How about one final photo: taken from the back of the van looking forward, from down low, so we can see how low your are hanging . . .

A la this thread:
Bostig drivers, show us photos of your rear end
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=367076

xo,
CJ
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climberjohn
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your photos, esp. the annotations/comments, are SUPERB!!!

Thanks for documenting this project so well.

How about one final photo: taken from the back of the van looking forward, from down low, so we can see how low your are hanging . . .

A la this thread:
Bostig drivers, show us photos of your rear end
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=367076

xo,
CJ
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John Sullivan
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice write up. I really like seeing the changes that Bostig has made just since the begining of 2010. I like the cooling improvements and the clearance with the new engine support. My support sits about 2 inches lower. It hits sometimes, and I worry about that. My ECU is also located in the engine bay. The new location should definilty be cooler for the electronics. Enjoy the ride.
Did you get the Zetec sticker from Bostig?
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crowinghen
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Verry nice-- That's an awesome write-up! Can't wait for the number crunching.
Susie
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Ranger Shad
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 6:27 pm    Post subject: Day 7 (more or less) Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Final photo of the installed and running Bostig Zetec engine.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

And no project is complete without the sticker.

Yesterday I finally found an alternator for a Ford Contour and after I installed it all the issues vanished. RULE #2 Follow the instructions. I ran another data log for Bostig and got the go ahead to drive. The Zetec started up immediately, ran smoothly, and had plenty of power. I drove 20 miles and then did my first oil and filter change. After that I drove and drove and drove. The Zetec has reasonable acceleration, is fairly quiet, and is very responsive to the throttle. The Zetec engine in a Vanagon is not a rocket, but it has the power and speed the 1.9 (and probably the 2.1) waterboxer lacked. You can actually feel the acceleration!. This is how the van should have been powered.

The folks at Bostig have been looking at these posts and the additional photos on the other site. This morning I got a phone call from Brady (at Bostig) with some suggested changes to the installation to improve safety and longevity. They suggested that I reroute the fuel supply line and the fuel return line, and the addition of extra cable ties to hold the coolant lines away from the exhaust system and provide additional stability. I did these changes (see photos) and went driving again today. Just another example of their customer service and dedication to a good product.

I will probably make one last post in a few days with the total hours, total cost for the project, and some subjective impressions of the project and the improved performance.

The following link takes you to my photo web site with new additional photos: http://yachtmaya.smugmug.com/Cars/Bostig-Zetec-Conversion/13563772_UrVzb#988833822_L9BpE
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Tarooka
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 10:07 pm    Post subject: Pain Felt Reply with quote

Man I understand your frustration, but at the same time I can relate to your human experiences. What ever project I grab there is one of those "Muffler" experiences that invoke many primal screams.

Great job, keep it coming!
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Day 6 (1/2) Finished (well almost)! Reply with quote

Ranger Shad wrote:
I shook it some more, and twisted it some more. I screamed at it (didn't help it come out but made me feel better), I cursed at it. Then I shook it some more...you get the picture. I took a break for a drink (should have been beer but it was only ice tea). Finally I took 2 long socket extensions and made a ball of duct tape on one end with the sticky side out. took 3 attempts but I was able to get it out. This might have been funny but it was 90 degrees out and my sense of humor evaporated after the first hour. This little nightmare took almost 2 hours! Needless to say after I got the strip out it slid into place and the muffler was attached in 15 minutes. I may have Vanagon PTSD.


I haven't worked on my van in a while, so I really enjoyed reading this. Just to remind me what it's like.
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Ranger Shad
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 8:24 pm    Post subject: Day 6 (1/2) Finished (well almost)! Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Flashing the Bostig custom tune into the ECU prior to first start.

Hooking up the Zetec to the Vanagon took longer than I had planned. Although none of the connections were difficult, it seemed like every time I crawled under to do something I didn't have the right tool or part to finish. The main wiring harness is basicly plug and play, sort of. The 2010 version of the Bostig kit has moved the ECU into the van under the rear seat. Most Vanagons have a hole (with a plug) already there. The 84 Westy dose not, I had to drill a hole, after checking to be sure I didn't hit anything vital. The harness is fed to the engine compartment and the various connections are made. Then the entire harness is attached either with attached clips or cable ties. Part of the wiring system is a speed sensor and it's ring. These are attached to the rear axle at the CV joint and on the side of the tranny.

The final assembly of the exhaust system involves attaching the muffler to the exhaust pipe and mounting the rubber shock absorbers to the frame to hold and dampen the muffler. When you attach the hanger to the muffler there is a small (1 inch x 3 inch) stainless steel strip than is inserted under the hanger. Sometimes the little things are the ones that can drive ya mad. While attempting to put this SS strip in place I dropped it inside the muffler! It wouldn't come out, I shook it, and twisted it. I used one of those little grabby extension things. No go. Since it was stainless steel a magnet wouldn't work, So I shook it some more, and twisted it some more. I screamed at it (didn't help it come out but made me feel better), I cursed at it. Then I shook it some more...you get the picture. I took a break for a drink (should have been beer but it was only ice tea). Finally I took 2 long socket extensions and made a ball of duct tape on one end with the sticky side out. took 3 attempts but I was able to get it out. This might have been funny but it was 90 degrees out and my sense of humor evaporated after the first hour. This little nightmare took almost 2 hours! Needless to say after I got the strip out it slid into place and the muffler was attached in 15 minutes. I may have Vanagon PTSD.

Finally I filled the engine with coolant, much easier than the waterboxer, flashed the ECU with the Bostig custom tune that they provided, set-up the data log feature on the included OBD II reader/writer/logger, held my breath, and fired that puppy up. What a sweet sound, smooth, reasonable quiet, powerful. I like my new Zetec. Then I noticed that the alternator warning light was on. I checked all the connections, all OK. I called the guys at Bostig and talked with Brady, he talked me through various checks. Everything seemed correct. Well boys and girls it seems I ordered the wrong alternator. Rule # 2: READ THE INSTRUCTIONS, STUPID. This is completely my fault. The pre-install engine call out sheet specificly say "1999 Ford CONTOUR alternator". I bought a Focus alternator. Seems that the Focus will not work with this ECU. Easily fixed, except the parts supply place I bought the alternator at closes early, and I couldn't get there in time. So no go on driving today. Once again I must commend the customer service from the Bostig folks, it's great. They didn't call me stupid, to my face anyway.

I added a bunch of new photos. The following link takes you to my photo web site with new additional photos: http://yachtmaya.smugmug.com/Cars/Bostig-Zetec-Conversion/13563772_UrVzb#988833822_L9BpE
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1980 Whitby 42 Ketch "Maya"
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