4th gear disappeared

[space]

Driving down the highway 65mph and I lost 4th gear (no power)
This is a recently rebuilt trans 2wd
Ive read this happening to 4wd vanagons
Linkage seem fine
was able to move the connecting rod , from underneath, in 3rd and 4th w/o issue
Any Ideas?
Thnx

[Sodo]

4wd & 2wd 4th gears are exactly the same components.
There is no reason for more broken 4wd 4th gears.
I agree you read more 4wd broken 4ths. Dunno why.
Maybe they whine more On the Internet (syncro owners)

So if you’re under the van, and either hand-shifting between 3rd/4th it all seems normal?

Except 4th gear is no-go, like a “neutral”. Right?
4th gear breaking at the weld is a possibility, search Flomulgators images.
_________________


'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb

[space]

4th gear is essentially neutral=yes
under the van all seems normal

[Wildthings]

Open wallet, remove cash, cry silently

[danfromsyr]

had that happen 5hours from home (at the 1st day of a 2week trip)
took 6hours to return home in 3rd gear.
got home day 1 and replace transaxle with spare
Day 2 head out on major western road trip with new unknown transaxle v2.

noticed the 4th gear cruising was much more quiet.

day 14 transaxle v2 eats the differential 2 miles from home.

[space]

seeing as this was a very recent rebuild (less than 5 mnths)
It seems a little odd tht the trans needs work
This must be the most unreliable vehicle in history if, as a sticky chides, "have you ever gone a long distance without an issue" and "long distance =1k miles???
TBH im leaning towards the camp tht VW= Very Wonky
it appears that it couldnt do 100 miles w/o issue let alone 1k
and believe me I dont run it hard or otherwise abuse it
I spend more time pampering this turd than I have dun with ANY other vehicle
Not to besmirch the members here, as they have always been very helpful, but this fascination with these things is bordering on the point of masochism
rant over thank u all for ur opines and insight
T

[E1]

We've all been there.

Then with time, the issues lessen.

And it's worth it.


But I hear Ya.

Call the rebuilder, it's both unusual and unacceptable to have a fresh rebuild go south like this.

I'm intentionally not asking who rebuilt it.
_________________
‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman

[Sodo]

If you are stopped.
Engine idling.

Put it in 4th gear.
Let out the clutch (van doesn't move, right)
Pull back on the shifter.

Do you feel any "bumping" on the shifter?
Do you hear any "noises"?

Here's a broken 4th gear.
It's an OEM VW part.
They don't break often, but "it happens".
Pulling back on the shifter could jam the broken surfaces together, and you may feel it pulsing on the shifter.

A VW 4th gear that didn't break can run 400,000 miles.
_________________


'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb

[levi]

[space]

[Wellington]

sorry for your pain, rebuilt parts mean the part is still within spec, may be on the lower end of tolerances, but usable. The problem is parts and vehicles are 35 years old now, how well the vehicle has been maintained for its life is a huge factor in reliability (not just transmission). Replacement part quality is not up to par, so be careful just replacing parts and thinking, "well that new, should have to worry about that for many years."
If you want a real headache, try a 35 year old British car.

[DanHoug]

[space]

[AndyBees]

In my opinion, the rebuilder wouldn't have had a clue that the 4th gear in the OPs tranny was near failure, especially like the one in the pic Sodo posted.

OP, considering you never said it "jumped" out of gear and that it will not stay in gear, just no gear there, the failure is likely as suggested and posted by Sodo.

We have to assume the Tranny is an 091/1 (83.5 and up), of which I have no experience. But, it is my understanding those Trannies are much easier to disassemble and reassemble, particularly setting the shifting forks of each gear.

Generally, a rebuild involves replacing bearings, worn reverse gears, worn shifting forks, worn sliders, replacement of visually damaged/worn gears and the brass synchronizer rings if they are worn out of spec. If a cone is worn to the point that a new synchro ring is barely within spec, it should be replaced. The pinion bearing is the most expensive bearing in the transmission and by comparison the others are dirt cheap. It should be replaced, in my opinion, regardless of condition. (You're dumping in a lot of cash to go short there.)

I've rebuilt several 002 (for the Transporter) and 091 (80-83) trannies which require the use of a jig to set the shifting forks. This coming winter I plan to disassemble and rebuilt my first 091/1 which is out of an 85 model.

When I rebuilt the 091/1 "for" my 84 Tin-top (code DK, with taller R&P), I used Weddle for all the replacement parts and upgraded to taller 3rd & 4th gears to accommodate the TDI conversion I was doing at the time. The trans has always had a whine in 3rd & 4th gears, especially when I let up on the accelerator...... 3rd more so than 4th.... always assumed it to be the thick cut aftermarket gears.

Anyway, the salesman at Weddle encouraged me to use an upgraded 3rd-4th Hub considering I would be using a TDI engine. The trans has been great for almost 85k miles of which at least 25k of those miles were pulling a popup camper.

Lastly, although not a Vanagon Tranny, one day in my 2000 Jetta TDI, it jumped out of 5th gear with zero prior or present warning. Long story short, the slider and hub were worn extremely bad, thus, it was in a bind and would not stay in gear. (known oiling issue, especially if just slightly low on oil) ...
_________________
'84 Vanagon Tin-top, ALH TDI. 1989 Tin-top
1983 Air-cool, 225k miles, 180k miles mine. Seven trips to Alaska from 1986 thru 2003.

[space]

Hey Andy thanks for chiming in
Trans is an 091
The reason for the swap was the original trans used to pop out of 4th and 3rd had a "grinding" sound when i shifted (in to our out of 3rd)

[space]

Sodo, checked for noises and or grinding, bumping
Nothing
4th gear position does nothing
connecting rod moves freely
https://weddleindustries.com/products/1000154/1004937
this looks a different than your pic
will it work?
Btw thanks for ur time
T

[E1]

Hope it's an easy fix, Space. 👍🏼
_________________
‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman

[space]

[E1]

I didn't much help much here, but you're most welcome.
_________________
‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman

[AndyBees]

Space, the gear in the pic that Sodo posted is the idler. The part on the left contains the cone where the brass synchronizer rides during engagement. The cone is on the side facing down.

The gear you linked from Weddle is splined in the center hole and fits on the shaft in a fixed position.

It takes to tango !
_________________
'84 Vanagon Tin-top, ALH TDI. 1989 Tin-top
1983 Air-cool, 225k miles, 180k miles mine. Seven trips to Alaska from 1986 thru 2003.