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Westy Fire Extinguisher
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Wolfram
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 4:42 pm    Post subject: Westy Fire Extinguisher Reply with quote

Need to replace the FE in the Westy. Is there an exact replacement that clips in to the original spot?

Geoff
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RCB
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can probably find a small extinguisher at your local hardware store. I know the Kiddie's come with a plastic bracket that you can attach to where its originally installed.

Keep in mind that they are the powdered type and when extinguished, they leave a mess.

Have you considered an upgrade; like the Halon types. They also come in a small size and extinguish a fire very quick and have the advantage of leaving no mess behind.

Hope you never have to use one but if you do..the Halon type II are very good.


Last edited by RCB on Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:36 am; edited 1 time in total
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Gauche1968
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fire BAD!!!!!!! Twisted Evil

The Kiddie Type Auto extinguishers will work fine.
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jonnie5
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

20lb ABC
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Halon if you are trying to search

any race car place with have very good ones
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Terry Kay
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Farm & Fleet for the stock westy fire extinguister--
About $13.00
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I bought one at the link below, it came with a metal bracket that bolted up to the existing holes and it fits great. It is rechargeable, has a charge indicator, all metal construction and very heavy duty, plus the price was great. It is an ABC type so it will definitely leave a big mess if you ever need to use it!

http://www.arizonatools.com/tools/fire-extinguishers/detail/AZT549/
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RCB
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Has anyone seen just how fast a Halon extinguishes a fire compared to the powder type extinguishers.

Halon works faster than gossip travels.
The powder type extinguishers do extinguish the fire but not nearly as quick and the residue just about ruins everything it lands on.

Think of a fire extinguisher as you would a fuel line..get the absolute best you can lay your hands on.

For those who still have the powder types...its a good idea to turn them upside down,every now and then, and gently "tap" the extinguisher on a solid surface. This helps to uncake the powder thats been sitting at the bottom of the extinguisher for year upon year.

Years ago SSFD did a live demonstration on how to correctly use a fire extinguisher.....they demonstrated the various types of extinguishers on a fuel fed fire.

The following day I ordered up a 5.lb Halotron I from Sarsam LLC.


Last edited by RCB on Tue Sep 07, 2010 7:21 am; edited 1 time in total
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Glenn Premium Member
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Halotron is DOT, USCG and FAA legal.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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bluebus86
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

although halon and halon substitutes may be cleaner than a powder type, they are much more expensive. one thing is you dont want to spend a lot of money for a tiny halon that is rated too small. I rather have a high rated powder type than a low rated halon type anyday. I dont care how messy a powder extengusher is, so long as the fire is put out. If you can afford a big halon, go for it, but if you budget is tight, spend the money n the biggest powder type you can. the number after the letters in the ratings determine the fire putting out ability

a halon rated B10 has half the ability to put out a given size fire than a powder typr rated B20

as a person that has used extengushers on more than one car fire, I know you do not want to have an extingusher rated too small to finish putting out the flames. if you run out of fire extingusher before the fire is totally dead out, the fire will rapidly and unpreventably grow back to a raging inferno.

I have put out the last flames on the last bit of extingushing media, the last gasp of the extingusher occured just as the last flame went out. one size smaller and I would have lost the car for sure.

the dry powder was not bad to clean up, not bad at all, (just do it right away before corrosion starts) after a wash down and replacement of melted wires and hoses and cleaning the carb, My car ran just fine, no long term corrosion issues.

so rule one is get the biggest rated extingugher you can afford, if halon is too high priced, do NOT settle for a small rated halon over a big rated powder type. what's a bit of powder clean up compared to a total loss becuase your extingugher ran out before the fire did?????

pay close attention to the rating numbers, the higher the number the greater the fire fighting ability. dry powder is not the death to metal and paint that it can be made out to be.
the real problem with dry powder is when folks do not immediatly clean it all up. other wise it is an economical alternative to halon. the dry powder type gives you more bang for the buck.
if you can afford a big halon, more power to you, if not, get the biggest powder type you can afford.

when it comes down to fire you really wont care about clean up so long as you put the fire out. a too small extingusher is a waste as the end result is a total loss of the car. might as well not even have one.

that said halopns are really nice, but they are expensive. the first priority should be the best rating of extingusher, the second concern is clean up. let your budget decide that, but pick fire fighting ability above cleanliness within your budget.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bluebus86 wrote:
although halon and halon substitutes may be cleaner than a powder type, they are much more expensive.

Ever cleanup an engine after fire? The powder is corrosive and actually eats up aluminum and magnesium. And forget what it does to seals.

I put a air filter fire out in my Beetle and drive home after. Zero cleanup. And that was with a unit half the size of my current one.. .and i didn't use all of it.

What's your vehicle and time worth?
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bluebus86
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glenn wrote:
bluebus86 wrote:
although halon and halon substitutes may be cleaner than a powder type, they are much more expensive.

Ever cleanup an engine after fire? The powder is corrosive and actually eats up aluminum and magnesium. And forget what it does to seals.

I put a air filter fire out in my Beetle and drive home after. Zero cleanup. And that was with a unit half the size of my current one.. .and i didn't use all of it.

What's your vehicle and time worth?


well it comes down to what can one afford. the main thing is to get the fire out. Yes i have cleaned up a powder extingusher residue , with great sucess. If I had purchased a halon extingusher of the same price as the powder one that just barely had enough capacity to get the flames out. I would not have been able to fully extingush the fire, that expensive little halon unit does no good when it is emptied.

you can get a dry powder one for maybe 1/4 the cost of halon for the same given extingushing ability. I dont have money to spend $200 for a halon unit when i can pay $50 and buy a large capacity powder type that is big enough to put out the fire. Heck $50 is what the tiny glove box sized halons cost, and that would never had been able to put out my gasoline fire.

yes powder is corrosive once wet, the key is to clean it up immediatly and completely. The powder to the best of my knowledge is not corrosive to rubber seals. the powder extingushers even have rubber seals in the valves so that is not a concern.


yes halon is better, but only if the extingusher is big enough to do the job, you must pay attention to the rating on the label for that data.


I guess you have never had to clean up a car that burnt to the ground cause the owners budget was small and he opted for the low capicty halon verses a high capacity powder type.

in the ideal world we'd all have big halon units, but reality is many folks cant afford one that is what I consider big enough to do the job.

folks with limited budgets would be better off buying a large capacity powder type the corrosive issue is not that big a deal so long as you deal with clean up ASAP after the fire. In my case I did rebuild the carb and removed and cleaned the diistributor and I hosed down the engine case and interior of the fan house, all in all not a bad outcome, had I bought an any less fire fighting ability extingusher that would have meant a total loss of my car.
My $50 budget for an extingusher was used wisely on the powder type, if I had spent $50 on a halon unit (which would have a much lower capacity)my car would have been burnt to the ground.

dont be afraid of dry powder it can be a real car saver, even if I had not cleaned up the powder promptly and the worst case happend that my engine case was totally dissolved by the powder, that would still be a better out come than having the whole car burn to the ground becuase the halon unit I could afford was not big enough.


if you can afford a $200 halon unit, more power to you, but if you only have a $50 budget, the powder type is the way to go if your serius about putting out the fire, worry about clean up later.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got my 2.5lb Halotron I with a steel can and aluminum head that cam be refilled cost me $80.

And if the fire is too large for it to be put out, it's already too late and a total.

Once the fire gets too large the metal becomes brittle and it's never gonna be safe to drive.

Oh.. I once put out a Mr. Softie soft server ice cream truck with my "little" unit. it cost $45 to get refilled.

Another good thing about Halotron over dry chemical, it does not leak down over time and the contents do not settle into a solid lump on the bottom.
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RCB
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you can only afford $50.00 so be it, its better to have a $50.00 extinguisher that works than to have none at all.

Considering just how tragic a fire can be and considering just how much $$$$$ we have in our Vans/Westy's/Vanagons I would try to increase the budget by any means available in order to purchase an extinguisher that will extinguish a flame as quick as possible.

I was amazed at how quick the Halotron II snuffed out the gasoline fed fire...it was allmost instant. A past customer of mine is the son of a Battalion Fire Chief and needless to say hes witnessed more fires in a week than most of us will in a lifetime.

With a powder type extinguisher, you need to smother the fire by hitting the fire,not that easy in an enclosed engine like we have in our Vanagons.
The Halotron II needs to be extinguished in the general vicinity of the flame for it to smother it.
If you have a fire in the engine compartment the only real way to get the powder onto the engine is to remove the engine hatch. Bad idea !!!

With the Halotron extinguishers you can drop the license plate door or shoot it down through the air vents on either side and believe me...a few shots of Halotron in either of those locations and you stand a better chance of extinguishing the flame than you do with trying to wave a powder type extinguisher in a back and forth motion into an area thats not really accessible.
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bluebus86
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RCB wrote:
If you can only afford $50.00 so be it, its better to have a $50.00 extinguisher that works than to have none at all.

Considering just how tragic a fire can be and considering just how much $$$$$ we have in our Vans/Westy's/Vanagons I would try to increase the budget by any means available in order to purchase an extinguisher that will extinguish a flame as quick as possible.

I was amazed at how quick the Halotron II snuffed out the gasoline fed fire...it was allmost instant. A past customer of mine is the son of a Battalion Fire Chief and needless to say hes witnessed more fires in a week than most of us will in a lifetime.

With a powder type extinguisher, you need to smother the fire by hitting the fire,not that easy in an enclosed engine like we have in our Vanagons.
The Halotron II needs to be extinguished in the general vicinity of the flame for it to smother it.
If you have a fire in the engine compartment the only real way to get the powder onto the engine is to remove the engine hatch. Bad idea !!!

With the Halotron extinguishers you can drop the license plate door or shoot it down through the air vents on either side and believe me...a few shots of Halotron in either of those locations and you stand a better chance of extinguishing the flame than you do with trying to wave a powder type extinguisher in a back and forth motion into an area thats not really accessible.



I know a 5 lbs halon is rated as a 10B extingusher. assuming haltron is simular to halon, 2.5 lbs of haltron would make it a 5B rated extingusher, my car took a 20B extingusher to put out the flames, and not a bit less. the 2.5 lbs of haltron would have been only one fourth of what was needed to put out my car fire.

I'd need four of your haltrons to put out the fire. at a cost of 4X$80= $240. i could not afford $240 worth of extingusher in each of my cars, we are all not rich, but we do have a need to put out a fire.

dont tell me a halon unit will not leak down, i just had one halon leaker recharged. not cheap to recharge either.

thats nice you have a former customer who is a son of a fireman...... and that means what????

I actually fought some fires, and along with four other guys was credited in saving five houses in a wildfire in a ten hour battle, survived two 300 gallon air drops on the roof we were standing on, talk about a knock down punch of water.
does that make me more credible, verses your relation to the firemans son???? i also have been a trained emergency first responder for about a decade for what it is worth. or is going to come down to which hotel we stayed in last??????


Last edited by bluebus86 on Tue Sep 07, 2010 5:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bluebus86 wrote:
I know a 5 lbs halon is rated as a 10B extingusher. assuming haltron is simular to halon, 2.5 lbs of haltron would make it a 5B rated extingusher, my car took a 20B extingusher to put out the flames, and not a bit less. the 2.5 lbs of haltron would have been only one fourth of what was needed to put out my car fire.

I'd need four of your haltrons to put out the fire. at a cost of 4X$80= $240. i could not afford $240 worth of extingusher in each of my cars, we are all not rich, but we do have a need to put out a fire.

dont tell me a halon unit will not leak down, i just had one halon leaker recharged. not cheap to recharge either, there is no reason that a dry chemical one would leak any sooner than a halon unit.

thats nice you have a former customer who is a son of a fireman...... and that means what????

I actually fought some fires, and along with four other guys was credited in saving five houses in a wildfire in a ten hour battle, survived two 300 gallon air drops on the roof we were standing on, talk about a knock down punch of water.
does that make me more credible, verses your relation to the firemans son???? i also have been a trained emergency first responder for about a decade for what it is worth.

The 1lb Halon unit i used to put out my air cleaner fire back in 1996. It's currently hung in my garage and it still has pressure. That's 14 years ago. And it was only $45 to refill my 5lb unit.

Halon is more efficient than dry powder.

You want cheap... carry a bucket of sand.

Finally, replacing the old fuel lines is cheaper than refilling your dry chemical unit.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glenn wrote:
bluebus86 wrote:
I know a 5 lbs halon is rated as a 10B extingusher. assuming haltron is simular to halon, 2.5 lbs of haltron would make it a 5B rated extingusher, my car took a 20B extingusher to put out the flames, and not a bit less. the 2.5 lbs of haltron would have been only one fourth of what was needed to put out my car fire.

I'd need four of your haltrons to put out the fire. at a cost of 4X$80= $240. i could not afford $240 worth of extingusher in each of my cars, we are all not rich, but we do have a need to put out a fire.

dont tell me a halon unit will not leak down, i just had one halon leaker recharged. not cheap to recharge either, there is no reason that a dry chemical one would leak any sooner than a halon unit.

thats nice you have a former customer who is a son of a fireman...... and that means what????

I actually fought some fires, and along with four other guys was credited in saving five houses in a wildfire in a ten hour battle, survived two 300 gallon air drops on the roof we were standing on, talk about a knock down punch of water.
does that make me more credible, verses your relation to the firemans son???? i also have been a trained emergency first responder for about a decade for what it is worth.

The 1lb Halon unit i used to put out my air cleaner fire back in 1996. It's currently hung in my garage and it still has pressure. That's 14 years ago. And it was only $45 to refill my 5lb unit.

Halon is more efficient than dry powder.

You want cheap... carry a bucket of sand.

Finally, replacing the old fuel lines is cheaper than refilling your dry chemical unit.


fuel line replacement is cheaper than refilling a powder fire extingusher, boy howdy you must get the deal on the cheapest fuel lines. and your labour rate must be pennys to the hour.

no doubt the halon is nicer, but you have to get what you can afford, your 1 lb unit would not have extingushed my fire, it was a gasoline fed fire not an air cleaner fire, different animal altogether.

all these warnings of doom over clean up of the powder is over played, getting the fire out is the main thing, that is why i stress the highest rated extingusher you can afford and resonabely fit in your car in a handy location.

i have seen too many little glove box halon units, that are expensive and rated too low to be of much use in all but the smallest fires.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My time is free since I do all my own work. I only have maybe a total of 18" of flexible hose from end to end.

Even at $240, how many fires do you expect to have? And how much did you pay for your vehicle?

bluebus86 wrote:
your labour rate must be pennys to the hour.

How many hours did it take to cleanup that engine?

An ounce of prevention is worth... well, you know the rest.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glenn wrote:
My time is free since I do all my own work. I only have maybe a total of 18" of flexible hose from end to end.

Even at $240, how many fires do you expect to have? And how much did you pay for your vehicle?

bluebus86 wrote:
your labour rate must be pennys to the hour.

How many hours did it take to cleanup that engine?

An ounce of prevention is worth... well, you know the rest.


my van has considerably more fuel hose than 18 inches it is a 1986 vanagon. must be close to six feet just around the engine bay not counting the fuel tank hoses the good hose costs from 3 to 5 bucks a foot, that what i use.

i do my own dry powder clean up so my labour is free. it took me about four hours to clean it up.

I got a dozen cars, to place a $240 extingusher in each car would break the bank, sorry Crying or Very sad

there is really no point arguing , I agree halon is prefered, but budgets for some do not allow halon, or do not allow a halon unit with enough fire fighting ability I needed a 20B unit to put out my gasoline fire and not any less. you got away with less on a lesser fire, thats great! you luicked out, had you a fire the size of mine, the 5B halon would not be enough.

what distrurbed me is there was no discusion of ratings until now. folks say halon is best or haltron is best or CO2 is best or powder is best or sand is best, but we have to be talking the ratings to really compare. the after the fire clean up is important but should be a secondary consideration, cause if you dont have a big enough extingusher, clean up is not really a concern at all.

peace and love
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bluebus86 wrote:
I got a dozen cars, to place a $240 extingusher in each car would break the bank, sorry Crying or Very sad

You must own the bank to pay for insurance on all of them.
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