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Correct Pitman Arm 1963 Bug?
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WideRidezzz
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 4:04 pm    Post subject: Correct Pitman Arm 1963 Bug? Reply with quote

I'm sorting through a few front end things and it was pointed out to me either my Pitman Arm was installed upside down or it is the wrong Pitman Arm entirely.

Now I don't know a Pitman Arm from a Pitt Bull. What I do know is the one I got is chrome and spices up the underside of my car. Unfortunately my steering leaves a little to be desired.

It has become clear to me that this car was cobbled back to together by one of its previous owners; a sensitive but frugal soul. A person with access to lots of varied parts, some original and some not, but no fear of using what was on hand!

Assuming the rest of the front end is 1963, what would the correct Pitman Arm look like and what part number would it be as I go shopping to recreate, resurrect and restructure my bug's front end
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Azsilverbug
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Try 113-415-371, that fits 62-65. but it will depend on which steering box you have.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 5:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks... I'll give that a shot.
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Chris659
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry to revive such an old thread but I tried to tighten down my new WW tie rod ends tonight and they're fine at the spindle ends but not at the pitman arm...

There's a space in between the tie rod end and the pitman arm still after the nuts are fully tightened. My pitman arm, like described in the first post of this thread, is chrome and came on my car.

I have a 61 beetle.

I still have the old ends and will dig them out and compare...

D I need some sort of spacer to fill the gap or is it a different end needed?

Thanks
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smitty24
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chris659 wrote:
Sorry to revive such an old thread but I tried to tighten down my new WW tie rod ends tonight and they're fine at the spindle ends but not at the pitman arm...

There's a space in between the tie rod end and the pitman arm still after the nuts are fully tightened. My pitman arm, like described in the first post of this thread, is chrome and came on my car.

I have a 61 beetle.

I still have the old ends and will dig them out and compare...

D I need some sort of spacer to fill the gap or is it a different end needed?

Thanks


I would get a stock one and do away with the chrome, to begin with. Chrome is for a buggy, not a fine tuned street machine! Whatever you do, DONT use spacers or run it loose. Very bad and dangerous, having a POS fit between tie rods and pitman and/or spindles.

It is possible your arm was for a later syle which uses bigger ends. Are the old ends bigger? They have to be if the new ones are too loose. WW sells correct parts. Yours may be changed by a PO. Is this possible? Got any pics you can show us?
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VOLKSWAGNUT
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chris659 wrote:
Sorry to revive such an old thread but I tried to tighten down my new WW tie rod ends tonight and they're fine at the spindle ends but not at the pitman arm...

There's a space in between the tie rod end and the pitman arm still after the nuts are fully tightened. My pitman arm, like described in the first post of this thread, is chrome and came on my car.

I have a 61 beetle.

I still have the old ends and will dig them out and compare...

D I need some sort of spacer to fill the gap or is it a different end needed?

Thanks


It sounds like you have late model inner tie rods with an early pitman arm.
The sizes of ALL the tie rods shaft cones were enlarged mid year 1968. So either buy the later pitman arm, (if you have the later box), or buy the older inner tie rods.
Avoid using any type of spacers on your steering linkage.
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Chris659
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok thanks...I dug told ends out and will measure them anthem call the good folks at WW and order the correct ones

Nothing seems to be simple with this stupid car....
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smitty24
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^exactly! I get tired of folks constantly informing me that "old vws are so easy to work on." They seem to not understand all the dumb POs that let things rust in place, skimp on maintenance, and ghetto-rig electrical etc. that WE the new owners get to undo. It usually shats in our lap. Every time I work on my bus, I find out something else the PO "wasn't aware of." Rolling Eyes

oh, and old vws are not what I consider a "cheap" car by any means.

Anyhow, you can either get the later ends or get a smaller pitman. Personally, I like the later since they cost less from a lot of shops and are actually a bit stronger than the smaller ones. Both are fine for normal street use.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

smitty24 wrote:

, you can either get the later ends or get a smaller pitman. Personally, I like the later since they cost less from a lot of shops and are actually a bit stronger than the smaller ones. Both are fine for normal street use.


He means early tie rods (smaller tapered shank), or larger (tie rod holes) Pitman Arm....
I agree. if you can use the later arm... use it. The tie rod shanks were enlarged for a reason...

Vw's are very simple..... One of the most simple cars left on the roads.... but previous owners do have a tendency to.... do what they got to do to keep them rolling.
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Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:31 am    Post subject: Re: Correct Pitman Arm 1963 Bug? Reply with quote

So as not to create another thread. So I am understanding this correctly, are the holes in the pitman arm that the tie rod end shanks go through larger on a later pitman arm? I put new tie rod ends on a new to me buggy that has a chrome pitman arm and noticed too much play in the steering wheel. In diagnosing the issue, I turned the steering wheel back and forth while looking for play and notice the shanks of the tie rod ends are loose in the pitman arm. I can crank the nuts tighter, but the shaft/shank is physically sliding a little bit horizontally in the pitman arm. Buggys are hodgepodges of parts, would this mean they put a late model pitman arm on?
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:29 am    Post subject: Re: Correct Pitman Arm 1963 Bug? Reply with quote

^ yep..


Pitman arm tie rod holes, tie rod end shanks and spindle tie rod hole diameters were enlarged mid year 1968.
(hmmm.. sounds familiar for some reason.. Think ) Laughing just a joke Sharp.. Wink

If the tie rod shanks are loose in the hole (or vice versa).. its mismatched parts... early tie rod ends in a late Pitman arm.

Buy 1969 and newer inner tie rod ends.. ..oh and keep a book of notes for you and any others who may ever own it. hahhaaa. Laughing

I think the chrome Pitman arms.. are all "late hole style" ..not sure on that though... I've never used one..

.
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Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Correct Pitman Arm 1963 Bug? Reply with quote

Thanks Ken. Yeah I get an F in reading comprehension today. Lots going and half reading I guess. It does get more complicated though it appears. There are three different pitman arms offered. Ones with a large shaft hole and small tie rod end holes which is correct for <68, a second with small shaft hole and large tie rod end holes for >68 and a third with a small shaft hole and small tie rod end holes for those using a small shaft steering box with early tie rod ends. Apparently I need the latter as my TRW box uses the smaller shaft. I would just replace the tie rod ends but they are brand new “problem solver” serviceable ones that I just paid too much for. Local shop had the right P/A so hopefully will be good to go.
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Last edited by Sharp64 on Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Correct Pitman Arm 1963 Bug? Reply with quote

Ahhh.. yeah.. forgot the actual steering box shaft size debacle . ...
Good point.. and good addition..

Buggy's can be a previous owner nightmare.. Shocked


Just get the correct tie rod end size for its spot..
Oh.. and good luck.. Laughing


Sounds like you got it handled... pun intended.. Wink

I once had a car with a late Pitman arm, early left spindle, late right spindle..

It was like buying parts for a Johnny Cash car.. Laughing

"Itssa 60616263646566676869 automobile"
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aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Correct Pitman Arm 1963 Bug? Reply with quote

Sharp64 wrote:
. Apparently I need the matter as my TRW box uses the smaller shaft...


A TRW box with the smaller worm-and-sector style output shaft? When did that start?....I've never heard of the like. Every TRW box I've ever seen was the larger shaft introduced with the worm-and-roller steering box. I put a TRW box on my 62 10 years ago and at the time I took a photo of the pitman arm shafts side by side:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Correct Pitman Arm 1963 Bug? Reply with quote

glutamodo wrote:
Sharp64 wrote:
. Apparently I need the matter as my TRW box uses the smaller shaft...


A TRW box with the smaller worm-and-sector style output shaft? When did that start?....I've never heard of the like. Every TRW box I've ever seen was the larger shaft introduced with the worm-and-roller steering box. I put a TRW box on my 62 10 years ago and at the time I took a photo of the pitman arm shafts side by side:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


This is what the parts guy told me. I haven't had a chance to take the old one off yet and compare. Tried mic'ing it real quick while on the car and they do seem like the same, but I'll update later tonight or tomorrow.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Correct Pitman Arm 1963 Bug? Reply with quote

Hahhahha... Part's guys... I deal with em' every day..

Dune Buggy's... and prior owner VW's in general..

=

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



All you need is the matching tie rods..

Dont overthink the simple..


..
_________________
aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Correct Pitman Arm 1963 Bug? Reply with quote

Like I said, I already have the tie rod end and now the new pitman arm. If it doesn’t work I’ll take it back and get the right one. Unfortunately they may have to order it if it’s the large shaft and small holes. We’ll see.

Edit* by process of elimination and logic. The steering box has to have a small shaft if the current pitman arm has large tie rod holes since there doesn’t appear to be a pitman arm with large shaft holes and large tie rod end holes. So either the new one is correct or the one on there is the same and I have another issue.

Edit** I looked in the garage and found one of the inner tie rod ends that were taken off and it’s the later style. So the pitman arm I purchased today should be correct.
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