14" tire options?

[Wildthings]

[geodude]

I'm not sure that equation is correct. The maximum load rating is specified for a certain pressure. For Standard Load it's 35 psi, for XL it's 41 psi, for Load Range C it's 50 psi, etc. The max load doesn't really play into this. If You have an XL tire for instance that has a load index of 98 that rating is at 41 psi, not max inflation. That is likely why the late vans with the alloys spec'd 40 psi rear, since they were using 97R (same as XL) tires (they got the tire closest but slight higher capacity than needed). Now the capacity does go up with pressure, but you don't want to get near max pressure or you risk tire damage. I think some people have had blowouts since they thought they had to have xx amount of pressure regardless of what the max load pressure was and were putting in 50 psi (or whatever) in a tire meant to run at 41 or less.
So since capacity is proportional to pressure the equation would be more like max load pressure psi / max rated load x needed capacity = needed inflation psi.
_________________
1988 GL Camper
1991 Multivan — the basket case

[Jon_slider]

[davevickery]

[crazyvwvanman]

Agreed, the XL and RF should be treated as passenger car tires as far as de-rating goes.

I too have wondered exactly when the de-rating came into effect. I find it a little surprising that VW went with the 205/70/14 97R at all on the Syncro. Especially when you put it in the context of the other tires listed on the Syncro door sticker. The 205R14C is massively higher load rated for example.

Mark

[Jon_slider]

If you look at this chart
http://www.roadhaus.com/tires/OE%20Tire%20Load%20Inflation%20Table.html
you will see VW used 1580 as a rear load inflation target on both Syncros and 2wd vans at different times. You will also see VW used rear axle load inflations as high as 1710 lbs for 2wd, and as high as 1750 lbs for a syncro. Those values are higher than the rear GVAWR, which for a 2wd was 1433, and for a Syncro was 1521.

Here is info about the use of XL tires, and the 9% derating of passenger tires. It does not say to derate XL tires. In fact it says the tire with a 1580 max load rating was the lowest XL rated tire VW used.

===
http://www.roadhaus.com/tires/guideline.html
"The  205/70R14 97R VW used was a "special" passenger car tire.
 
This might lead some people to assume they can use passenger car tires instead of Light Truck tires on a Vanagon.
 
However there are two factors to consider.
 
1) This OE tire had a "Reinforced sidewall. In today's tire market , passenger car tires with a reinforced sidewall will have either a  XL or RF designation. 
 
 Example 305/50R20 XL or 305/50R20 RF.
 
Light Truck tires by the nature of their design already have reinforced sidewalls and thus the XL & RF designations do not apply.
 
2) The second issue and perhaps the least understood, in using a passenger Car tire on a Light truck application is the 9% rule.
 
What the heck is this ....
 
Using passenger car tires on light trucks should be approached with caution. The varied service that a light truck undergoes and because these vehicles have a higher center of gravity and greater probability of being overloaded than passenger cars means that the rated load-carrying capacity of a passenger car tire used on it is reduced. When referencing a passenger car tire for light truck use, decrease the tires load capacity by 9%"
===

At different times and with different tires, VW used Front load targets on a Syncro of 1365, 1433, 1465, and 1480 pounds. I was not aware that those were ever the GVAWR for the front of a Van.

http://www.roadhaus.com/tires/guideline.html
"Vanagon & Camper ... GAWR Rear 2866 / 2 = 1433 lbs on each rear wheel if loaded to capacity
Syncro Vanagon & Camper ... GAWR Rear 3042 / 2 = 1521 lbs on each rear wheel if loaded to capacity"

VW used load inflations for the rear of a Syncro, whose rear GVAWR was 1521, of 1580, and also 1750, at different times and with different tires. My point is the load inflations exceed the axle ratings, they are not the same.

But you can skip all the load table concerns, and all the derating concerns, by avoiding P and XL tires, and using C or D rated tires instead. And you can extrapolate the inflation for the new tire, based on the door sticker, without ever needing a load table.
_________________
My Soapboxes: Inflation; Handling; Gearing; Decoupling; Swepco

[crazyvwvanman]

Larry did a great thing when he researched and wrote his famous tire blog but some of what is there is simply opinions, which he admits. It has a lot of good info but some of it is less so IMHO. If no one can cite a real source for not treating XL and RF passenger tires as passenger tires then I will treat them as passenger tires and de-rate them until such evidence comes into play.

Mark

[Randy in Maine]

I just spoke with John the Technical Guy at Kumho Tires USA (800) 445-8646.

He told me that the Kumho 857 series tires are indeed a suitable tire for use in a VW bus or vanagon. Nice and stiff in the sidewall and able to support some serious weight. Some trailer tires do have construction or desgin details that make them unsuitable for use as car or truck tire and those all "trailer only tires" have the prefix of "ST" for the restrictions to be used only for trailer use.

[regis101]

I'll take science over seat-of-the-pants any day.
My pants are worn out
_________________
Peace, Regis

[geo_tonz]

[denwood]

Chatting with Jon over pm's, and reading over my own post on the load tables examination, I'm thinking the equation:

(OE tire max load) X (Sticker recommended PSI) / (OE tire max PSI) X (New tire max PSI) / (New tire max load) = new tire recommended inflation

will consistently deliver PSI ratings that may slightly exceed the load tables, but not under. To understand the p-metric, reinforced, iso-metric and LT load tables, and the 10 pages of tech stuff associated is all there in the TOYO document, but easy to make a mistake interpreting the volume of information there. That equation though is pretty straightforward. I'd suggest we throw up an excel sheet link, run the tires through it and cross check with the load tables. Anyone posting a question can decide if they want to wade through the technobabble, or just plug the numbers into the spreadsheet to assess their options.

Then the next person who asks gets the excel link and a smile
_________________
Cheers,
Dennis Wood
The Grape

[Jon_slider]

2wd Vanagon including Camper
original tire 185r14
max load 1710
max psi 55
front psi 43
rear psi 53

new tire 195R14
max load 2095
max psi 65
front psi 41
rear psi 51

new tire 195x75/14
max load 1710
max psi 65
front psi 51
rear psi 63

===

4wd Vanagon including Camper
original tire 205/70/14
max load 1580
max psi 40
front psi 36
rear psi 40

new tire 195R14
max load 2095
max psi 65
front psi 44
rear psi 49

new tire 195x75/14
max load 1710
max psi 65
front psi 54
rear psi 60

14" tires that meet Vanagon specs
http://www.van-cafe.com/home/van/page_1086_1324/nokian_tire_185r14c_hakka_c.html

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=B...;tab=Specs

http://www.busdepot.com/RA08195

http://www.herculestire.com/tire-gallery/passenger-and-light-truck/light-truck/power-cv/
_________________
My Soapboxes: Inflation; Handling; Gearing; Decoupling; Swepco

[devesvws]

is this a defect?? Front tire depression with about 20k on them 1yr 8 months old. hankook ra08

_________________
THE FEW THE PROUD THE ORIGINAL VW WATERBOXER -> looking for a original 91 vanagon owners manual with 1991 on the cover http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmuiG2tUsP4&feature=share https://picasaweb.google.com/101290228103300323836/BostonBobFlywheelVideo#5543000332201103922

[canasync]

[devesvws]

well not worried, but a lot of folks on here know way more than I do so it never hurts to ask. so what is that? I have noticed other tires too...
_________________
THE FEW THE PROUD THE ORIGINAL VW WATERBOXER -> looking for a original 91 vanagon owners manual with 1991 on the cover http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmuiG2tUsP4&feature=share https://picasaweb.google.com/101290228103300323836/BostonBobFlywheelVideo#5543000332201103922

[davevickery]

According to tirerack, indentation - OK, protrusion - BAD.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=32

[junichi]

Found these on the kumho canada site. Not listed in 14" on tire rack site but available at my local kumho dealer. Seem to meet the specs for load and the shop says they will mount on the 5.5 inch rim. It's a 27x8.5 LT tire and looks prettyy nice. Price is $130 each, which is way cheaper than BFG or yoko Y370 that we get here.
_________________
1964 Kombi- http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=640048
Sold: 1985 Transporter Doka,1978 Westfalia, 1975 bay x 2, 1986 syncro vanagon, 1965 beetle, 1980 vanagon, 1967 deluxe bus, 1988 golf

[PDXWesty]

[junichi]

See title of my post : )

Here's the link:
http://www.kumhotire.ca/en/tire/category/truck-suv/8CE40218-BC5C-47D0-AC9C-3207A8C1C3A3
_________________
1964 Kombi- http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=640048
Sold: 1985 Transporter Doka,1978 Westfalia, 1975 bay x 2, 1986 syncro vanagon, 1965 beetle, 1980 vanagon, 1967 deluxe bus, 1988 golf

[davideric9]

I just bought these tires:

LANDSAIL LS288 RADIAL ALL SEASON XLPLY BW - P205/70R14 98H

$62 each with free shipping. They seem to meet the required specs for the vanagon 2wd. They are rated XL on the sidewall. I'll let you know how they feel once they are installed.

Did I get the wrong tires? Do these meet spce, or close to it? I have BFG AT on the syncro, and they have been a standard goto tire for a long time AND the don't meet spce, so I figured close enough is not bad... (plus supporting 4 vans they don't all get the top of the line stuff, too much money for my blood).
_________________
1987 Syncro Westfalia, stock (bought 1994)
1986 Syncro Westfalia SVX, 3 knob (bought 2008)
1987 Westfalia (bought 2010)
1988 Wolfsburg GL (bought 2012)