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1FineOLD69 Samba Member
Joined: January 18, 2020 Posts: 92 Location: santa cruz CA
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Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2020 7:48 pm Post subject: Replacing my 1969 Bay Window Bus Westy - Wooden Headliner |
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Hi Folks
The original wooden headliner was always the favorite part of my Bus over the years.
I just love that look.
For reasons that Id rather not get into, its completely garbage.
I haven't been able to find a good thread on replacing the bay window Bus Westy wooden headliner so figured I would try to document my work in hopes that it will help another Bay window westy owner in the future.
Also I'm sure now that I'm making a thread all you pros out there will come out of the woodwork with more tips to make all of our jobs go smoother. so thank you everyone in advance.
My original wooden headliner had become so moist and moldy that it had warped, it started to sag down so low you could'nt even sit in the drivers or passenger seat with out it resting on your head.
There was really no choice but to remove the old warped moldy original headliner.
Now I was able to get some great tips already from the split window forum and I'm well aware of their various threads documenting split window / early bus wooden headliner installs.
However since i haven't seen one here in the Bay Window Bus threads, I figured this would be a good topic for me to cover.
So lets get started, I hope it turns out nice for me and you
Last edited by 1FineOLD69 on Sat Jan 25, 2020 8:44 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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1FineOLD69 Samba Member
Joined: January 18, 2020 Posts: 92 Location: santa cruz CA
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Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2020 8:02 pm Post subject: Re: Replacing my 1969 Bay Window Bus Westy - Wooden Headliner |
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Im going to apologize right now for not taking any good pictures of how bad this headliner looked. I thought I did take pics but turns out they are videos.
I do have these pictures below so you can get a bit of good idea of what kind of shape the headliner was in prior to removal.
Last edited by 1FineOLD69 on Sat Jan 25, 2020 8:43 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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1FineOLD69 Samba Member
Joined: January 18, 2020 Posts: 92 Location: santa cruz CA
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Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2020 8:10 pm Post subject: Re: Replacing my 1969 Bay Window Bus Westy - Wooden Headliner |
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I began to remove the old warped headliner by first removing the stiff rubber trim piece that goes all the way around the inside of the pop top area as seen in the picture posted above.
The trim was not glued on and came off really easy, in fact most of it had been falling off for years any way
For now I was careful to remove this trim piece as to save this piece because I may try to reuse it , If another new one is to expensive for my budget or unavailable.
However I'm sure a new one can be had. |
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1FineOLD69 Samba Member
Joined: January 18, 2020 Posts: 92 Location: santa cruz CA
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Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2020 8:31 pm Post subject: Re: Replacing my 1969 Bay Window Bus Westy - Wooden Headliner |
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To remove your old headliner (if you are lucky enough to still have one) Start by removing the the aluminum T-shaped 1 inch thick connectors that divides the large front and rear pieces of wood from the MIDDLE smaller left and right side wooden sections.
Then remove the small left and right side wooden sections.
the cargo door side small wooden middle section is what I started with first.
that one is easy.
BE CAREFUL DURING REMOVAL OF EVERY PIECE OF WOOD EVEN IF ITS DAMAGED BECAUSE YOU WILL NEED THESE LATER TO TRACE YOUR NEW REPLACEMENTS
Next remove the drivers side small middle wood section.
Now this one it tricky be extra careful due to the fact that it has your dome/camp light in it.
I was able to get my wood loose enough to reach behind the wood and disconnect the power wire (it slips right off of the connection) and a small screw was grounding the other wire right to the bus metal.
after which I was able to remove the whole section of wood with the light still attached and ill get back to changing over the light later.
Last edited by 1FineOLD69 on Sat Jan 25, 2020 8:48 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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TomWesty Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2007 Posts: 3482 Location: Wyoming,USA
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Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2020 8:40 pm Post subject: Re: Replacing my 1969 Bay Window Bus Westy - Wooden Headliner |
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As for the rusty cot bracket, you can de rust that by going to Harbor Freight and getting some Evaporust. Submersion is the best thing to do if you can, but you might have to get creative with what container you use. I used a polyethylene children’s snow sled to submerge my luggage rack bars when I did them. _________________ If you haven't bled on them, you haven't worked on them.
Visit: www.tomcoryell.com and check out my music! |
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1FineOLD69 Samba Member
Joined: January 18, 2020 Posts: 92 Location: santa cruz CA
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Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2020 8:41 pm Post subject: Re: Replacing my 1969 Bay Window Bus Westy - Wooden Headliner |
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Here are some pictures of the smaller wooden middle sections, both drivers side with light still attached for later removal and The passenger/cargo door middle section.
also the aluminum ''T'' sections I'm referring to that should be removed carefully first.
Now none of these pieces are glued in.
They are just slipped into the small track on the bottom and held into place on the top by the stiff rubber trim piece going around the opening of the pot-top section
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1FineOLD69 Samba Member
Joined: January 18, 2020 Posts: 92 Location: santa cruz CA
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Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:44 pm Post subject: Re: Replacing my 1969 Bay Window Bus Westy - Wooden Headliner |
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once the middle sections are removed you can just pull both the main front and rear sections out, if like my bus you still have all or most of them available to be removed.
My wood was so damp, warped, and funky the original plywood had separated.
what was once a single 1/8 piece became 3 separate really thin sheets
here is a pic of what i had left of my front piece, it came out in pieces and I tried to carefully put it back together so I could get a good trace on some new wood
Last edited by 1FineOLD69 on Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:02 am; edited 1 time in total |
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1FineOLD69 Samba Member
Joined: January 18, 2020 Posts: 92 Location: santa cruz CA
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Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:59 pm Post subject: Re: Replacing my 1969 Bay Window Bus Westy - Wooden Headliner |
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according to the thread in the split window forum (sorry no link) the wood you want to use is:
1/8 thick baltic birch it comes in 5ft x 5ft sheets and is available at many speciality hard wood suppliers.
I think I paid 30-40$ for three sheets. My local store didn't have any in stock but was happy to special order it for me and I got it in just a couple days.
Now this is where i'm kinda dumb founded. I tried to locate a pattern for me to trace exact new pieces onto the 5 x 5 baltic birch.
But was unable. I could not find a pattern anywhere.
I have located a few places to purchase new baltic birch headliner pieces already cut out, but obviously at a premium price. I think the guy was asking 800$
And yes I asked if he would provide a pattern to me for a fee but the answer was a hard - No
So I want to take the time right now to say :
I will be making a trace of my new cut outs onto something maybe cardboard (not sure yet) and if after installation, the headliner turns out good, and anyone would like my patterns just ask. No charge here just trying to pay it forward because it was very frustrating to not be able to locate a proper pattern.
Now having said that. I was careful to remove my old warped, moldy headliner because I knew my only chance was to get a good trace.
Since the 1/8 inch baltic birch 5x5 sheets are so affordable at around 10$ each, I figured it couldn't hurt to give it a try with tracing.
I really didn't have anything to lose. My old headliner had to be removed anyway.
Last edited by 1FineOLD69 on Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:35 am; edited 1 time in total |
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1FineOLD69 Samba Member
Joined: January 18, 2020 Posts: 92 Location: santa cruz CA
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Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:24 am Post subject: Re: Replacing my 1969 Bay Window Bus Westy - Wooden Headliner |
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So I got my new 5x5 sheet picked the best looking side and laid it face down with my least favorite side facing up.
Next I began by carefully reassembling the old headliner pieces best I could on top of the 5x5 birch sheet.
Keeping in mind I'm trying to get a good trace. the old wood wasn't even laying flat so I used some large pieces of 4x6 lumber I had laying around to keep the old wood flat and from moving so I could get a good trace onto the new 5x5 birch.
The 5x5 sheet is large enough if you are careful with placement, you can also get one small middle section traced on the same sheet of baltic birch.
Below is a picture of my new 5x5 sheet of baltic birch with both the front headliner section traced and also one of the small middle sections as well.
You can see in the picture the new wood quickly got dirty from the old funky headliner and lumber i used to weigh it down. If you care to you could always sand it down to remove. But this is also why I recommend putting your preferred side face down to try and keep it clean to avoid sanding after.
I used a sharpie for the trace, but a ink pen would work well also.
I'm more than happy with how the initial trace turned out.
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Xevin Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2014 Posts: 7601
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Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:50 am Post subject: Re: Replacing my 1969 Bay Window Bus Westy - Wooden Headliner |
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Erb
Link
Nice job so far on the tutorial 1FineOLD69 _________________ Keep on Busin'
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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Damn that Xevin... |
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My God! Xevin and I 100% agree |
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1FineOLD69 Samba Member
Joined: January 18, 2020 Posts: 92 Location: santa cruz CA
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Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:58 am Post subject: Re: Replacing my 1969 Bay Window Bus Westy - Wooden Headliner |
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Here are some pictures of the bus after the headliner was removed.
You can see in the picture the dome light hanging. it was already just hanging down with the sagging old wood headliner prior to removal.
This dome light is an issue I'm afraid of facing when it comes to the install of the new wood. I'm not sure of the original placement of the dome light since it was already hanging and not connected to the bus.
Plus I'm not sure even if I did have it placed correctly, if during install it would effect the sliding of the new wood into place.
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kinggeorge13 Samba Member
Joined: May 24, 2013 Posts: 95 Location: Fort Langley, BC, Canada
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Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 8:41 am Post subject: Re: Replacing my 1969 Bay Window Bus Westy - Wooden Headliner |
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Looking forward to see what you choose for insulation. _________________ 1975 Westy, Serenity w/FI
1975 Westy, Jack Sparrow w/FI
1979 Kombi, Pistachio w/FI
1979 Kombi, Oliver wFI
1977 Tin top camper, Cosmos w/FI
1974 Westy, Garfield w/ Dual Solex PDSIT
1973 Tin top camper, Bart
1974 gutted Dorper Casper w/ Dual Solex PDSIT
1975 Westy, Stella w/single progressive Weber
1979 Super Beetle, Penelope w/FI
1967 Fastback, Green Hornet w/dual Solex |
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1FineOLD69 Samba Member
Joined: January 18, 2020 Posts: 92 Location: santa cruz CA
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Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:14 pm Post subject: Re: Replacing my 1969 Bay Window Bus Westy - Wooden Headliner |
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kinggeorge13 wrote: |
Looking forward to see what you choose for insulation. |
Me too , I was checking out Trashman's Build thread and I think I'm gonna use the same FatMat insulation and or the same closed cell foam heat and sound insulation.
Heres some pictures of what I can only believe is the original insulation that was only present in the front cab area when the headliner was removed.
I'm thinking I would like to install the new insulation throughout the entire bus prior to the headliner going in, I just worry if this will make the install a bit more difficult. Guess we'll find out
Last edited by 1FineOLD69 on Tue Jan 28, 2020 2:58 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ewdb92 Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2010 Posts: 502 Location: Plymouth, NH
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Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 3:53 pm Post subject: Re: Replacing my 1969 Bay Window Bus Westy - Wooden Headliner |
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1FineOLD69 wrote: |
I began to remove the old warped headliner by first removing the stiff rubber trim piece that goes all the way around the inside of the pop top area as seen in the picture posted above.
The trim was not glued on and came off really easy, in fact most of it had been falling off for years any way
For now I was careful to remove this trim piece as to save this piece because I may try to reuse it , If another new one is to expensive for my budget or unavailable.
However I'm sure a new one can be had. |
Boil the trim and scrub. Many like simply green, I can't remember what I used, but it was similar. If it shrank over the years, you can't stretch it out while it's warm. New are are out there, pretty sure I have on WW one. Give a shout if you need. _________________ Erik
71 Camper
http://zerotosixtyeventually.wordpress.com/ |
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wcfvw69 Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004 Posts: 13387 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 8:18 pm Post subject: Re: Replacing my 1969 Bay Window Bus Westy - Wooden Headliner |
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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=681515&highlight=wood+panel
This is a great thread with measurements of the panels. _________________ Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours** |
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1FineOLD69 Samba Member
Joined: January 18, 2020 Posts: 92 Location: santa cruz CA
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Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:37 pm Post subject: Re: Replacing my 1969 Bay Window Bus Westy - Wooden Headliner |
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Great thread, thanks for adding the link _________________ Looking for a complete sink unit for early bay window |
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1FineOLD69 Samba Member
Joined: January 18, 2020 Posts: 92 Location: santa cruz CA
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Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:48 pm Post subject: Re: Replacing my 1969 Bay Window Bus Westy - Wooden Headliner |
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So heres a cool story I know you all will dig.
After i removed the old headliner that had separated into 3 sheets. I grabbed the best looking section to get a trace. As I was placing some lumber on the old warped section to help keep it flat on top of the new birch. I noticed something beneath the dirt and well mostly mold, so i began to wipe away the dirt&mold.
Well I was surprised to find this old doodle of what looks like a rabbit to me.
Now keep in mind this was in-between the very thin sections of OG birch ply, that were meant to be together as one. perhaps never to be seen again. if not for the damage to the ply and it becoming separated and ultimately removed, we wouldn't be looking at this today.
So here is a true piece of interesting history.
I think I'm going to cut it out and put it in a frame, maybe hang it in the bus. Not sure just yet but wanted to share the story with everyone
_________________ Looking for a complete sink unit for early bay window
Last edited by 1FineOLD69 on Thu Jan 30, 2020 11:05 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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1FineOLD69 Samba Member
Joined: January 18, 2020 Posts: 92 Location: santa cruz CA
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Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:57 pm Post subject: Re: Replacing my 1969 Bay Window Bus Westy - Wooden Headliner |
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I used the finest jigsaw blade I could find to get the best possible splinter free cuts.
I also figured since I had quite a few long straight cuts, that I would get a fine finish blade on my circular saw.
Well the circular saw was a bit much and made me get off my line about a 1/8inch in a few spots. I think it will be ok and I'm going to just try the panel anyway before I just trace a whole new piece. If I had any doubt I would start over. The birch is cheep enough.
So I finished up everything with the jig saw and would recommend anyone else to just take your time and do the whole job with a jigsaw and fine blade
Below is a picture of the jigsaw blades I used and my finished 1/8inch baltic birch cut out.
Im happy with how it all turned out.
So two 5x5 sheets of Baltic Birch yielded all 4 headliner pieces !
_________________ Looking for a complete sink unit for early bay window |
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1FineOLD69 Samba Member
Joined: January 18, 2020 Posts: 92 Location: santa cruz CA
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Posted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 2:23 pm Post subject: Re: Replacing my 1969 Bay Window Bus Westy - Wooden Headliner |
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Boil the trim and scrub. Many like simply green, I can't remember what I used, but it was similar. If it shrank over the years, you can't stretch it out while it's warm. New are are out there, pretty sure I have on WW one. Give a shout if you need.[/quote]
This is a interesting idea. So would you recommend me boiling this on install day just prior to installation so the trim is still warm and softer therefor easier to work with? And would I boil it in plain water or add simple green to the water?
I thought I recalled watching a youtube or reading somewhere about the trim containing a metal ''C'' shaped insert inside of the trim that you can forcibly bend back open with a flat head screwdriver for a better fit and then pinch back closed after its been installed. But can't find where i read that anymore _________________ Looking for a complete sink unit for early bay window |
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ewdb92 Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2010 Posts: 502 Location: Plymouth, NH
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Posted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 8:16 pm Post subject: Re: Replacing my 1969 Bay Window Bus Westy - Wooden Headliner |
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1FineOLD69 wrote: |
Boil the trim and scrub. Many like simply green, I can't remember what I used, but it was similar. If it shrank over the years, you can't stretch it out while it's warm. New are are out there, pretty sure I have on WW one. Give a shout if you need.
This is a interesting idea. So would you recommend me boiling this on install day just prior to installation so the trim is still warm and softer therefor easier to work with? And would I boil it in plain water or add simple green to the water?
I thought I recalled watching a youtube or reading somewhere about the trim containing a metal ''C'' shaped insert inside of the trim that you can forcibly bend back open with a flat head screwdriver for a better fit and then pinch back closed after its been installed. But can't find where i read that anymore |
You can clean it any time and warm it again when it's time to install. I just let mine sit in the sun on the driveway before installing. I didn't need to clean mine, but have heard boiling, then simple green works on all the interior rubber trim. Actually, I did use it on the vinyl seats and floor, worked great. Don't know why adding simple green while boiling would be an issue.
There is something rigid in the gasket, don't know what it is but it doesn't interfere with stretching the gasket back to length. You can crimp it down as you install it. Mine has rusted that I can tell. Also, save the stretching for installation, that way you can stretch as it goes on - that helps avoid overstretching. _________________ Erik
71 Camper
http://zerotosixtyeventually.wordpress.com/ |
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