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How to keep a Bus stock and all stock height questions
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cdennisg
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 9:39 pm    Post subject: Re: How to keep a Bus stock and all stock height questions Reply with quote

bergfan wrote:
My split bus has a straight axle conversion but I want to raise it and keep the Bug trans as its super smooth shifting and nice on the motorway. It will have ridiculous positive camber if I raise it so can I convert my bug trans to IRS which would solve the camber issues. IRS trans are stupid money here, about 3k for a good one and finding a RGB trans would be like finding a rocking horse turd . It has flipped spindles on the front t which will be easy to put back to stock.


The short answer is yes, but there is more to it.

Taking that swing axle center section and adding IRS stuff to it takes a bunch of parts. Spring plates, trailing arms and their mounts to the torsion tubes, bearing carriers, complete rear brakes, stub axles, CV joints and axles, and the parts going into the sides of the trans that I cannot recall the name of right now.

Yes, it can be done. If you have a complete IRS rear end, minus the trans, you just might have all of the donor parts needed.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2020 5:36 am    Post subject: Re: How to keep a Bus stock and all stock height questions Reply with quote

FWIW, when I did my IRS it ended up being an inch HIGHER than stock! Grated, it’s at the extreme angle of the CV joints but it has done quite well for 10 years.😎
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2020 7:58 am    Post subject: Re: How to keep a Bus stock and all stock height questions Reply with quote

Hi guys I have a 64 split window that was lowered and I just raised the front end. I found out that all but 2 springs were cut. Now, I need to raise the back of the bus.

Whats the best way to go about adjusting the torsion bar and anything else that needs to be changed?

Thanks for the help.

Levi
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cdennisg
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:44 am    Post subject: Re: How to keep a Bus stock and all stock height questions Reply with quote

slyeager wrote:
Hi guys I have a 64 split window that was lowered and I just raised the front end. I found out that all but 2 springs were cut. Now, I need to raise the back of the bus.

Whats the best way to go about adjusting the torsion bar and anything else that needs to be changed?

Thanks for the help.

Levi


The rear torsion bar re-index procedure is well documented, its even in the Bently manual. But first we need to know if you have a straight axle conversion or if your RGB's are still back there.

Best to share a few clear photos for us to peruse.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2020 1:16 pm    Post subject: Re: How to keep a Bus stock and all stock height questions Reply with quote

Hi Folks,

I'm looking for some current suggestions for tires. I have a 1966 bus, with stock wheels, stock beam, stock trans with RGB, and a 1,600 motor.

Do you have any suggestions for the best option for stock tires? I'm looking for solid black tires, no whitewall. I would like to buy the best option for safety and ride quality. I had heard good things about Continental Vanco's, but can't find them anywhere. Any suggestions for brand, size, and rating?
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2020 1:21 pm    Post subject: Re: How to keep a Bus stock and all stock height questions Reply with quote

Spitty1974 wrote:
Hi Folks,

I'm looking for some current suggestions for tires. I have a 1966 bus, with stock wheels, stock beam, stock trans with RGB, and a 1,600 motor.

Do you have any suggestions for the best option for stock tires? I'm looking for solid black tires, no whitewall. I would like to buy the best option for safety and ride quality. I had heard good things about Continental Vanco's, but can't find them anywhere. Any suggestions for brand, size, and rating?


Starfire SF 510 in 27x8.5R14 I have them on my 68 single cab, and my full size Chevy truck. Great tires, decent price, and made by Cooper tires either in USA or Mexico.

I will always recommend buying from a local dealer, but here is what they look like for comparison shopping. My dealer got them for just under $100 each.

https://www.amazon.com/Cooper-Starfire-SF-510-All-Season-Radial/dp/B00FAYV3KC
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2020 9:35 am    Post subject: Re: How to keep a Bus stock and all stock height questions Reply with quote

Cdennisg,
Thank you for the tire info!
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iubhounds
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2020 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They never say in all I have read so far in this thread ... and the picture is great because as a novice I can "see what they are talking about ... they never say what size of engine they are using.

I want to do this to my new acquired 60 panel that has disc brakes in the rear and a 1835cc engine with a freeway flier out of a bug.

What else do I need to get the bus raised back to stock height ???

cage66 wrote:
LHG wrote:
Part required for raising a lowered bus.
Reduction box transaxle, spring plates, stock spindles.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

This basically answers the question to this whole thread.
Laughing Laughing
Nice looking trans. Cool Did Rancho do the reduction boxes also?

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2020 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iubhounds wrote:
They never say in all I have read so far in this thread ... and the picture is great because as a novice I can "see what they are talking about ... they never say what size of engine they are using.

I want to do this to my new acquired 60 panel that has disc brakes in the rear and a 1835cc engine with a freeway flier out of a bug.

What else do I need to get the bus raised back to stock height ???

cage66 wrote:
LHG wrote:
Part required for raising a lowered bus.
Reduction box transaxle, spring plates, stock spindles.

This basically answers the question to this whole thread.
Laughing Laughing
Nice looking trans. Cool Did Rancho do the reduction boxes also?



what is NOT in the picture... brakes, like drums, liners, brake cylinders
probably new e-brake cables.

What you can't see: the gearing of the transmission. RGBs are a LOT slower, meaning you definitely want a freeway flier transmission.

a stock beetle transmission without RGBs will give you a top speed of over 80 miles, where a stock bus transmission with RGBs will be screaming at that speed.

Oh, and, you will likely want bigger tires, not sure size you got. Chances are you have beetle size tires and you need much larger diameter or you won't hit 65 top speed....

At the very least you are looking for a stock "big nut" transmission out of a 65 or so and stock diameter tires like 195/15s. That will get you to 70-75 with your 1835.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2020 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mandraks wrote:

what is NOT in the picture... brakes, like drums, liners, brake cylinders
probably new e-brake cables.

What you can't see: the gearing of the transmission. RGBs are a LOT slower, meaning you definitely want a freeway flier transmission.

a stock beetle transmission without RGBs will give you a top speed of over 80 miles, where a stock bus transmission with RGBs will be screaming at that speed.

Oh, and, you will likely want bigger tires, not sure size you got. Chances are you have beetle size tires and you need much larger diameter or you won't hit 65 top speed....

At the very least you are looking for a stock "big nut" transmission out of a 65 or so and stock diameter tires like 195/15s. That will get you to 70-75 with your 1835.


I have a freeway flier now with no RGBs. Tire size is 185/65R/15. I was planning on getting bigger tires once the bus was raised. I will find out tomorrow what kind of trans is in it as they pull the motor to replace the main seal to stop the leaks. They will also replace the axle seals to stop the leaks. All of these leaks happened on the day I bought it and drove it home ... seems a little more than just coincedence.

Once I find out what the trans is, I am sure its not a big nut bus trans, I will have to decide if I want to spend the bucks for a new transmission, new brake drums, etc on top of the stuff needed. To me that is not worth it. My ignorance cost me on this purchase ... I didnt think it would be that big of a deal to raise it to stock height ... the engine size is what I did not factor in.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2020 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iubhounds wrote:
...

I have a freeway flier now with no RGBs. Tire size is 185/65R/15. I was planning on getting bigger tires once the bus was raised. I will find out tomorrow what kind of trans is in it as they pull the motor to replace the main seal to stop the leaks. They will also replace the axle seals to stop the leaks. All of these leaks happened on the day I bought it and drove it home ... seems a little more than just coincedence.

Once I find out what the trans is, I am sure its not a big nut bus trans, I will have to decide if I want to spend the bucks for a new transmission, new brake drums, etc on top of the stuff needed. To me that is not worth it. My ignorance cost me on this purchase ... I didnt think it would be that big of a deal to raise it to stock height ... the engine size is what I did not factor in.


your tires are going to be fine at first, not super small. So that is good news.

if you check what size the castle nut on your bus transmission is you can at least tell if it is a small nut (36mm) or the preferred big nut (46mm).

drive it around like it is for a while, a lot of people do. collect your parts, check what you got, take your time. You are already doing better than many... your bus is driving.

were you able to tell if you are leaking oil or brake fluid?
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2020 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mandraks wrote:
iubhounds wrote:
...

I have a freeway flier now with no RGBs. Tire size is 185/65R/15. I was planning on getting bigger tires once the bus was raised. I will find out tomorrow what kind of trans is in it as they pull the motor to replace the main seal to stop the leaks. They will also replace the axle seals to stop the leaks. All of these leaks happened on the day I bought it and drove it home ... seems a little more than just coincedence.

Once I find out what the trans is, I am sure its not a big nut bus trans, I will have to decide if I want to spend the bucks for a new transmission, new brake drums, etc on top of the stuff needed. To me that is not worth it. My ignorance cost me on this purchase ... I didnt think it would be that big of a deal to raise it to stock height ... the engine size is what I did not factor in.


your tires are going to be fine at first, not super small. So that is good news.

if you check what size the castle nut on your bus transmission is you can at least tell if it is a small nut (36mm) or the preferred big nut (46mm).

drive it around like it is for a while, a lot of people do. collect your parts, check what you got, take your time. You are already doing better than many... your bus is driving.

were you able to tell if you are leaking oil or brake fluid?


His current axle nut will be 36mm (small) since it's a beetle style swing axle trans. It has nothing to do with what he will end up with once it has redux boxes.

iubhounds, what you will need to bring your bus back to stock depends a lot on what you currently have. your shop will hopefully have the knowledge to guide you through this.

At the very least you will need a complete RGB setup from the transmission out to the drums. Your trans center section (if in good condition) may possibly be used along with RGB's, axles and brakes from a bus. The shop will have to flip the ring and pinion over inside the transaxle.

Depending on how the "freeway flier" was built, you may be able to use small nut RGB's out back. Small nut has shorter gearing than big nut, which will mean higher RPM at a given top speed. If it was just a taller ring and pinion gear (rather than internal gear changes), the shop will be able to find the final drive ratio when the axles are removed.

You will definitely want stock size/diameter tires. Those little things will look goofy as hell once you are back to stock height, and they are likely passenger car tires which suck to drive on a tall bus.

A good knowledgeable shop/mechanic can walk you through this one pretty easily. It sounds like a lot of stuff, and it is, but it is also pretty straightforward and has all been done before. There is not much mystery to it.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2020 5:05 pm    Post subject: Re: How to keep a Bus stock and all stock height questions Reply with quote

cdennisq,

i may have misunderstood that he had a donor bus tranny for the RGBs. That is why i asked.

a shop will certainly be able to figure this all out. I would just grab a big nut and stick it in there myself.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2020 5:10 pm    Post subject: Re: How to keep a Bus stock and all stock height questions Reply with quote

mandraks wrote:
cdennisq,

i may have misunderstood that he had a donor bus tranny for the RGBs. That is why i asked.

a shop will certainly be able to figure this all out. I would just grab a big nut and stick it in there myself.


Ahh, yes I can see where that may have been confusing.

Agreed, a fresh big nut trans with its corresponding big brakes would probably be the best course of action. Sell off the lowering parts to partially fund the new build.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2020 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Engine oil is right at the full mark on dipstick. Brake fluid resvoir is full. I rubbed the oil collected on the drip pan, it felt thicker than engine oil but did not have a smell like I expected for gear oil.

Yes I want to drive it daily as a retiree, no commute to work type of driving. I bought it to use, not that I haul a lot of stuff because I am lazy but my bloodhound will have an easy step into the van with her bad hips for her vet trips. Plus I just like driving a panel van.

I will be there when they pull the engine so I can see first hand what the transmission looks like.

mandraks wrote:
your tires are going to be fine at first, not super small. So that is good news.

if you check what size the castle nut on your bus transmission is you can at least tell if it is a small nut (36mm) or the preferred big nut (46mm).

drive it around like it is for a while, a lot of people do. collect your parts, check what you got, take your time. You are already doing better than many... your bus is driving.

were you able to tell if you are leaking oil or brake fluid?

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2020 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cdennisg wrote:
mandraks wrote:
iubhounds wrote:
...

I have a freeway flier now with no RGBs. Tire size is 185/65R/15. I was planning on getting bigger tires once the bus was raised. I will find out tomorrow what kind of trans is in it as they pull the motor to replace the main seal to stop the leaks. They will also replace the axle seals to stop the leaks. All of these leaks happened on the day I bought it and drove it home ... seems a little more than just coincedence.

Once I find out what the trans is, I am sure its not a big nut bus trans, I will have to decide if I want to spend the bucks for a new transmission, new brake drums, etc on top of the stuff needed. To me that is not worth it. My ignorance cost me on this purchase ... I didnt think it would be that big of a deal to raise it to stock height ... the engine size is what I did not factor in.


your tires are going to be fine at first, not super small. So that is good news.

if you check what size the castle nut on your bus transmission is you can at least tell if it is a small nut (36mm) or the preferred big nut (46mm).

drive it around like it is for a while, a lot of people do. collect your parts, check what you got, take your time. You are already doing better than many... your bus is driving.

were you able to tell if you are leaking oil or brake fluid?


His current axle nut will be 36mm (small) since it's a beetle style swing axle trans. It has nothing to do with what he will end up with once it has redux boxes.

iubhounds, what you will need to bring your bus back to stock depends a lot on what you currently have. your shop will hopefully have the knowledge to guide you through this.

At the very least you will need a complete RGB setup from the transmission out to the drums. Your trans center section (if in good condition) may possibly be used along with RGB's, axles and brakes from a bus. The shop will have to flip the ring and pinion over inside the transaxle.

Depending on how the "freeway flier" was built, you may be able to use small nut RGB's out back. Small nut has shorter gearing than big nut, which will mean higher RPM at a given top speed. If it was just a taller ring and pinion gear (rather than internal gear changes), the shop will be able to find the final drive ratio when the axles are removed.

You will definitely want stock size/diameter tires. Those little things will look goofy as hell once you are back to stock height, and they are likely passenger car tires which suck to drive on a tall bus.

A good knowledgeable shop/mechanic can walk you through this one pretty easily. It sounds like a lot of stuff, and it is, but it is also pretty straightforward and has all been done before. There is not much mystery to it.


The shop has the knowledge to raise or lower. They just completed a 64 bus that needed to be a little higher but I remember hearing that it came with adjustables so very little had to be replaced. I was planning on putting on BFGs like I had on the 64 panel I sold in November to another Samba member. In this area, BFGs come in handy on a panel van or stock SC.

The only mystery among the four different mechs I talked to online, one in person ... is how the RGBs work with an 1835cc engine. One says no problem. My shop and two in San Diego say they don't work well together and for me to get a smaller engine if I plan on using RGBs.

All confusing when I am a numbers man and not a mechanic. I admire mechanics and rebuilders of these old vw's. I do basic repairs out of a book, can adjust valves, change oil, basic maintenance ... but this is almost like foreign language. LOL
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2020 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iubhounds wrote:
cdennisg wrote:
mandraks wrote:
iubhounds wrote:
...

I have a freeway flier now with no RGBs. Tire size is 185/65R/15. I was planning on getting bigger tires once the bus was raised. I will find out tomorrow what kind of trans is in it as they pull the motor to replace the main seal to stop the leaks. They will also replace the axle seals to stop the leaks. All of these leaks happened on the day I bought it and drove it home ... seems a little more than just coincedence.

Once I find out what the trans is, I am sure its not a big nut bus trans, I will have to decide if I want to spend the bucks for a new transmission, new brake drums, etc on top of the stuff needed. To me that is not worth it. My ignorance cost me on this purchase ... I didnt think it would be that big of a deal to raise it to stock height ... the engine size is what I did not factor in.


your tires are going to be fine at first, not super small. So that is good news.

if you check what size the castle nut on your bus transmission is you can at least tell if it is a small nut (36mm) or the preferred big nut (46mm).

drive it around like it is for a while, a lot of people do. collect your parts, check what you got, take your time. You are already doing better than many... your bus is driving.

were you able to tell if you are leaking oil or brake fluid?


His current axle nut will be 36mm (small) since it's a beetle style swing axle trans. It has nothing to do with what he will end up with once it has redux boxes.

iubhounds, what you will need to bring your bus back to stock depends a lot on what you currently have. your shop will hopefully have the knowledge to guide you through this.

At the very least you will need a complete RGB setup from the transmission out to the drums. Your trans center section (if in good condition) may possibly be used along with RGB's, axles and brakes from a bus. The shop will have to flip the ring and pinion over inside the transaxle.

Depending on how the "freeway flier" was built, you may be able to use small nut RGB's out back. Small nut has shorter gearing than big nut, which will mean higher RPM at a given top speed. If it was just a taller ring and pinion gear (rather than internal gear changes), the shop will be able to find the final drive ratio when the axles are removed.

You will definitely want stock size/diameter tires. Those little things will look goofy as hell once you are back to stock height, and they are likely passenger car tires which suck to drive on a tall bus.

A good knowledgeable shop/mechanic can walk you through this one pretty easily. It sounds like a lot of stuff, and it is, but it is also pretty straightforward and has all been done before. There is not much mystery to it.


The shop has the knowledge to raise or lower. They just completed a 64 bus that needed to be a little higher but I remember hearing that it came with adjustables so very little had to be replaced. I was planning on putting on BFGs like I had on the 64 panel I sold in November to another Samba member. In this area, BFGs come in handy on a panel van or stock SC.

The only mystery among the four different mechs I talked to online, one in person ... is how the RGBs work with an 1835cc engine. One says no problem. My shop and two in San Diego say they don't work well together and for me to get a smaller engine if I plan on using RGBs.

All confusing when I am a numbers man and not a mechanic. I admire mechanics and rebuilders of these old vw's. I do basic repairs out of a book, can adjust valves, change oil, basic maintenance ... but this is almost like foreign language. LOL


Not sure why anyone would say you need a smaller engine to run with RGB's. That doesn't really make sense.

There is some speculation about the 1835 engine size and cylinder wall thickness as it relates to a typically hotter running bus engine, but the RGB's don't really affect that, final gearing, engine tuning, and how you drive affects that.

I suspect that leak at the wheel is a bad axle seal leaking gear oil. Not all gear oils "smell" like gear oil.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2021 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cdennisg wrote:
iubhounds wrote:
cdennisg wrote:
mandraks wrote:
iubhounds wrote:
...

I have a freeway flier now with no RGBs. Tire size is 185/65R/15. I was planning on getting bigger tires once the bus was raised. I will find out tomorrow what kind of trans is in it as they pull the motor to replace the main seal to stop the leaks. They will also replace the axle seals to stop the leaks. All of these leaks happened on the day I bought it and drove it home ... seems a little more than just coincedence.

Once I find out what the trans is, I am sure its not a big nut bus trans, I will have to decide if I want to spend the bucks for a new transmission, new brake drums, etc on top of the stuff needed. To me that is not worth it. My ignorance cost me on this purchase ... I didnt think it would be that big of a deal to raise it to stock height ... the engine size is what I did not factor in.


your tires are going to be fine at first, not super small. So that is good news.

if you check what size the castle nut on your bus transmission is you can at least tell if it is a small nut (36mm) or the preferred big nut (46mm).

drive it around like it is for a while, a lot of people do. collect your parts, check what you got, take your time. You are already doing better than many... your bus is driving.

were you able to tell if you are leaking oil or brake fluid?


His current axle nut will be 36mm (small) since it's a beetle style swing axle trans. It has nothing to do with what he will end up with once it has redux boxes.

iubhounds, what you will need to bring your bus back to stock depends a lot on what you currently have. your shop will hopefully have the knowledge to guide you through this.

At the very least you will need a complete RGB setup from the transmission out to the drums. Your trans center section (if in good condition) may possibly be used along with RGB's, axles and brakes from a bus. The shop will have to flip the ring and pinion over inside the transaxle.

Depending on how the "freeway flier" was built, you may be able to use small nut RGB's out back. Small nut has shorter gearing than big nut, which will mean higher RPM at a given top speed. If it was just a taller ring and pinion gear (rather than internal gear changes), the shop will be able to find the final drive ratio when the axles are removed.

You will definitely want stock size/diameter tires. Those little things will look goofy as hell once you are back to stock height, and they are likely passenger car tires which suck to drive on a tall bus.

A good knowledgeable shop/mechanic can walk you through this one pretty easily. It sounds like a lot of stuff, and it is, but it is also pretty straightforward and has all been done before. There is not much mystery to it.


The shop has the knowledge to raise or lower. They just completed a 64 bus that needed to be a little higher but I remember hearing that it came with adjustables so very little had to be replaced. I was planning on putting on BFGs like I had on the 64 panel I sold in November to another Samba member. In this area, BFGs come in handy on a panel van or stock SC.

The only mystery among the four different mechs I talked to online, one in person ... is how the RGBs work with an 1835cc engine. One says no problem. My shop and two in San Diego say they don't work well together and for me to get a smaller engine if I plan on using RGBs.

All confusing when I am a numbers man and not a mechanic. I admire mechanics and rebuilders of these old vw's. I do basic repairs out of a book, can adjust valves, change oil, basic maintenance ... but this is almost like foreign language. LOL


Not sure why anyone would say you need a smaller engine to run with RGB's. That doesn't really make sense.

There is some speculation about the 1835 engine size and cylinder wall thickness as it relates to a typically hotter running bus engine, but the RGB's don't really affect that, final gearing, engine tuning, and how you drive affects that.

I suspect that leak at the wheel is a bad axle seal leaking gear oil. Not all gear oils "smell" like gear oil.


Bus has been in the shop this week. It turned out to be rear axle seals and boots by the tranmission that were leaking. Easy fixes. Passenger side semaphore was not hooked up and now works. Lights needed a new switch. Bumper installed but found it had a BUG exhaust so a new bus exhause and quieter muffler will be installed. Then just see here on Samba on a different thread my headlights are in upside down and one is a bug and one is a bus headlight. You have to wonder about the seller with an email of "arizonaclassiccar" and what other vehicles he has butchered and sold them as restored vehicles.

I decided to stick with the engine and setup that I have for a while to see how I like it. I really does run great and rides smooth at that level. A shop in San Diego was the one telling me they did not have good results with a larger engine like mine running RGBs. They went back to a 1600 for that bus they raised to stock height.
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velvetgreen
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Joined: August 17, 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2021 2:29 pm    Post subject: Re: How to keep a Bus stock and all stock height questions Reply with quote

Thought someone might like seeing stock VW of Canada 14" tire from the back in the day. These tires were called "Golden Miler" in tribute to where VW of Canada was originally situated in "The Golden Mile" in Scarborough, Ontario

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Navydave73
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Location: Alta Loma/Los Angeles
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

monkey knuts wrote:
I reset my spring plates to 20 degrees +/- 30’ as prescribed in Bentley adjusting for a -1 degree reading from the chassis rails.

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It was thankfully very easy to do as you can pull backwards and rotate the axel enough for clearance.

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With the engine weight she is now sitting pretty with 0 degrees at the rails and about 4 degrees camber on the rear wheels.


sorry to drag up an old post, but anyone know what tires these are? Looking at Coker, the Firestone 640 x 15 dont seem to have the same pie crust as these do.
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