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Idle Cut-off Valve Questions ( stalling / sputtering )
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PotatoePapa
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 6:43 pm    Post subject: Idle Cut-off Valve Questions ( stalling / sputtering ) Reply with quote

Well, I nearly logged my first 1000 worry-free miles. Nearly.

1600 DP, 34 PICT-3, 009

Basically, a couple of days ago I noticed the bus sputtering upon accelerating from a cold start. Once it was up to normal operating temperature things seemed to be fine, so I attributed this to the "cooler" weather we'd been having in So Cal.

Fast-forward to yesterday, I was approaching a stop light down a fairly steep hill and as I press the clutch in, she dies. No struggle, just totally dies. I was able to start it back up no problem, and as long as I was giving it some gas it would still run and I got to work by avoiding all stops. (My home is 75 miles from work, but I'm sleeping in the bus on my workdays.)

So, I figured the culprit to be the idle cut-off valve. I turned the ignition on, and pulled the connection to the valve and it clicks each time it comes in contact with it. HOWEVER, I am able to actually move (wiggle?) the black core (for lack of a better name) WITH the wires connected and I hear it clicking in the same fashion as if I were removing and reconnecting the connection. If I'm parked, I can get the connection to hold and idle, but if I go back and move it around at all, it immediately dies. I'm able to drive as long as I don't need to come to an idle, but it sputters pretty good.


My questions:
-Am I crazy in assuming that wiggling the valve should result in NO clicking and stalling a running engine?
-Are these valves/solenoids things that can just simply fail?
-If not, was the sputtering a bit of a sign?
-Is the sputtering at acceleration a symptom of an intermittently working valve?
-Is there ANYONE in the SAN PEDRO/SOUTH BAY that might have a spare, working idle cut-off valve? I'd need it by tomorrow morning. Preferably delivered. Laughing





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PS. Desertbusman, I now have a Bentley. Can we be friends now?
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Desertbusman
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sure, good idea, providing you use it Laughing
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Klaussinator
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Remove it & plug the hole! Fixed --- ask me how i know . . .

-Klauss
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PotatoePapa
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How do you know?
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Randy in Maine
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 5:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is the solenoid tight to the body of the carb?

Never use a sealant on the solenoid as it will interfere with the current that shuts it off.

Does anything change when you run a known good ground to the body of the carb? Might try running a test ground wire from the battery "-" terminal to the carb to see if that changes things.

Are the connections tight at the coil/solenoid/electric choke? Sometimes they need a little pinch at the crimp connectors. I assume you are wired correctly...

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I see you are using a 009 distributor (lousy choice in my book) but make sure the dwell is correct (if you are using points) and that you are timed correctly for a 009. 28 is the number I would use and remember that the timing notch on the pulley would be at 5 ATDC if it is indeed the stock pulley.

http://www.type2.com/library/electrip/bosch009.htm

If you decide that the solenoid really is bad, you can snip off the plunger on the solenoid and re-install it. It won't won't do what it is supposed to do when it works right (cutoff fuel when the engine is off or at idle), but it won't stall due to the solenoid. I would do that last.
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PotatoePapa
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 5:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks I actually already had that diagram printed out.

I'll have to try making sure there's a good ground to the carb.


One of my major questions, is it unusual for the clicking to occur with everything wired up?
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Randy in Maine
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 5:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The "click" (which is the sound of the plungers extending & shutting down) should only occur when the power to is it cutoff. I THINK (but don't know for a fact) there were different plungers for the 34 and 30 series carbs.

Someone will be along in a minute that knows though.
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Klaussinator
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PotatoePapa wrote:
How do you know?


I had the same problem while on a trip to PA about a year ago.
My solenoid would click but wouldn't retract the plunger consistantly. Where we were, replacement parts weren't an option, so I removed it completely and plugged the hole.

That was many miles ago, and obviously that problem is gone since the part is no longer in use. No problems with engine run-on either.

-Klauss
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PotatoePapa
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure why that makes me laugh so much, Klauss. What did you use to plug it?
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the cut off is bad anyway, like it sounds like, just cut the end off and screw it back in. If you then have a problem with the engine running on after you turn the key off then go out and buy a new fuel cut off solenoid when you get the chance.
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Klaussinator
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PotatoePapa wrote:
I'm not sure why that makes me laugh so much, Klauss. What did you use to plug it?


I used a black rubber "cork" that fit the hole. Zip-tied in place for extra security. Wink Cool

-Klauss
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PotatoePapa
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I ended up taking the plunge...well more like cutting the plunge off. So far so good. I'll be sure to replace it very soon.

Thanks for the assistance all, and thanks for the laugh, Klauss. lol, love it.

And Desertbusman, I've used the manual a few times, now. However, I found only a few sentences on this particular part. It also would be fantastic if those wiring diagrams were in color, but the internet has helped. God bless it.
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Desertbusman
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PotatoePapa wrote:
And Desertbusman, I've used the manual a few times, now. However, I found only a few sentences on this particular part. It also would be fantastic if those wiring diagrams were in color, but the internet has helped. God bless it.


Have you downloaded the color wiring diagram from the technical section? Recently I took a copy of that to the copy shop and had it printed on a larger heavier weight paper. Having a few "working" copies is nice to use with colored markers. Sure wouldn't want to do that with the page in the book. Also here is another source for the '71 diagram.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=422867 Thanks to Jose.

Glad you identified and evidently solved that problem. My bugs spare carb has the plunger button cut off also.
My son commutes the 91 thru the canyon in the toll lane. I've done the route a few times in the bus and sure don't consider it to be a bus friendly drive. But it seems more bus friendly than bug friendly.
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The best thing that anyone can do for their Bay is get the Volkswagen of America Official Service Manual published by Robert Bentley. Without it the bus is pretty much doomed.
73kombi wrote:
when that red light goes on, you have to make a choice.
Amskeptic wrote:
I am not answering that.
Respectfully,
GoBuyABentley

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PotatoePapa
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yessir, I have. The Kinkos idea isa a good one.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PotatoePapa wrote:
Yessir, I have. The Kinkos idea isa a good one.


Sounds like someone's sucking up to DBM
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PotatoePapa
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aeromech wrote:
PotatoePapa wrote:
Yessir, I have. The Kinkos idea isa a good one.


Sounds like someone's sucking up to DBM


Don't be jealous. There are enough potatoes to feed the whole family.

Positive comments yield positive responses. I've been in the automotive message board "game" for too long to get involved in any feuds.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PotatoePapa wrote:
aeromech wrote:
PotatoePapa wrote:
Yessir, I have. The Kinkos idea isa a good one.


Sounds like someone's sucking up to DBM


Don't be jealous. There are enough potatoes to feed the whole family.

Positive comments yield positive responses. I've been in the automotive message board "game" for too long to get involved in any feuds.


I only try to suck up to those who know what they are doing! DBM is one of them! Busdaddy is another and aeromech makes me crazy when I see the beautiful work he does!
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aeromech
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PotatoePapa wrote:
aeromech wrote:
PotatoePapa wrote:
Yessir, I have. The Kinkos idea isa a good one.


Sounds like someone's sucking up to DBM


Don't be jealous. There are enough potatoes to feed the whole family.

Positive comments yield positive responses. I've been in the automotive message board "game" for too long to get involved in any feuds.


No offense, just wondering if you're related to Dan Quayle?
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Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
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PotatoePapa
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...lol

Glad someone caught that. You may be the first.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 5:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Idle Cut-off Valve Questions ( stalling / sputtering ) Reply with quote

PotatoePapa wrote:
Well, I nearly logged my first 1000 worry-free miles. Nearly.

1600 DP, 34 PICT-3, 009

Basically, a couple of days ago I noticed the bus sputtering upon accelerating from a cold start. Once it was up to normal operating temperature things seemed to be fine, so I attributed this to the "cooler" weather we'd been having in So Cal.

Fast-forward to yesterday, I was approaching a stop light down a fairly steep hill and as I press the clutch in, she dies. No struggle, just totally dies. I was able to start it back up no problem, and as long as I was giving it some gas it would still run and I got to work by avoiding all stops. (My home is 75 miles from work, but I'm sleeping in the bus on my workdays.)

So, I figured the culprit to be the idle cut-off valve. I turned the ignition on, and pulled the connection to the valve and it clicks each time it comes in contact with it. HOWEVER, I am able to actually move (wiggle?) the black core (for lack of a better name) WITH the wires connected and I hear it clicking in the same fashion as if I were removing and reconnecting the connection. If I'm parked, I can get the connection to hold and idle, but if I go back and move it around at all, it immediately dies. I'm able to drive as long as I don't need to come to an idle, but it sputters pretty good.


My questions:
-Am I crazy in assuming that wiggling the valve should result in NO clicking and stalling a running engine?
-Are these valves/solenoids things that can just simply fail?
-If not, was the sputtering a bit of a sign?
-Is the sputtering at acceleration a symptom of an intermittently working valve?
-Is there ANYONE in the SAN PEDRO/SOUTH BAY that might have a spare, working idle cut-off valve? I'd need it by tomorrow morning. Preferably delivered. Laughing





Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


PS. Desertbusman, I now have a Bentley. Can we be friends now?


As Wildthings already stated....

Wildthings wrote:
If the cut off is bad anyway, like it sounds like, just cut the end off and screw it back in. If you then have a problem with the engine running on after you turn the key off then go out and buy a new fuel cut off solenoid when you get the chance.


That is your first problem... solenoid is bad. Cut the plunger off temporary and get another. Wink
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