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True or False: A '91 Westy that has been driven gently...
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Californio
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Call me a traitor, but if you aren't mechanically inclined and have that much to spend, you might look into a Eurovan. They're newer and easier to have serviced at dealers and other places that won't look at Vanagons. Not my cup of tea but I did look inside one in a campground and it was more modern, kind of nice. I suppose it would be possible to find one with genuinely low miles, good maintenance history, etc.
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DAIZEE
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What you are saying may very well be a good point but there is not much support or information on Eurovans around here, even the Eurovan people have stated that they feel outside the loop even tho this is the Vanagon/Erovan forum.

As to the level of mechanical expertise its all over the map. When I ran sophisticated life support systems, I had to know how they worked, how to diagnose any problems and realize when it was a bioengineering problem or was it something I could fix without jeopardizing a life. Sometimes being better at diagnosis is as valuable as being a wrencher.

Having any kind of Vanagon is not an exclusive club. We are all people and we all 'love' these vehicles. How much $$$ we have and what skills we have are a factor in getting into, and its good to know that the purchase price is the cheapest part of owning a Vanagon (just as a boat's original price is the cheapest part of owning and that the saying "owning a boat is having a hole in the water into which you throw your money")

I think that as a community with many of the same interests, but with different qualities and experiences we bring much to the table. All in all we can only answer/advise sincere inquiries. We can make people aware of the pros and cons and the problems they may encounter BUT we can not suggest that anyone or any group of people should not do something that they want to.

We are all created equal SOMEWHAT. Smile
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tourmaline
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Daizee: Out of curiosity, what exactly was your big mistake that is referenced here on the forum?
And I understand your frustration at Californio's comment. It did come across as a bit elitist, especially in this modern age where we have the convenience of AAA. It's sad that we gals aren't given the education in automotive maintenance that most males are from a young age. Just because I played with Barbies doesn't mean I won't eventually need to know how to change a tire, change my oil, etc. Of course, even if I was a boy, my dad couldn't have taught me anything because he himself can't tell a dip-stick from a hockey-stick. lol!

Terry Kay: 12k for which one? The 200,000 miles van or the 70,000 miles van?

RicoS: What, may I ask, is a "yentzen?" I Googled and came up with nothing that made sense...

Californio: Thanks for the idea, but I don't want a Eurovan. I love the stove/sink/fridge components and the layout and the appearance of Vanagon Westys. Truth be told, I am in love with the Vanagon Westfalia. Embarassed
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Terry Kay
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't pay $12,000 for either one of them.
The picture you drew isn't really pretty on either one of them.

Then the you make the announcement your not too mechanicly inclined.
That's real bad.

Let's just say you popped that 24 large, and now you start spending some more because some madman gave you the thumbs up.

Guess what?

All of a sudden your gonna be real pissed, & more monetarily strapped, because you had a MLK dream.

My suggestion?
Take a real good look at a Chevy, Dodge, or Ford Sportsmobile.
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syncrodoka
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Woman or not you can go out with your manual and learn on your own how to tinker with cars. A local community college probably has a structured course if you really are interested in learning.
I know of several techs that started out exactly like that. You gotta start somewhere.
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tourmaline
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Terry Kay:

Quote:
I wouldn't pay $12,000 for either one of them.


You wrote: "--12 would be on the money--"
I assumed that you meant 12k would be a fair price. Truthfully, I wouldn't pay that much either.

Quote:
Then the you make the announcement your not too mechanicly inclined.
That's real bad.


No it's not. You're very melodramatic...[sigh] Rolling Eyes

Quote:
Let's just say you popped that 24 large, and now you start spending some more because some madman gave you the thumbs up.


Please translate that into English, I have no idea what you're trying to say.

Quote:
Guess what?


What?

Quote:
All of a sudden your gonna be real pissed, & more monetarily strapped, because you had a MLK dream.


Oh, please. It has become dogma on this board that if you buy a Vanagon Westy, then you buy a money pit. I'm saying that may be true most of the time but I'm committed to finding one that's in great shape. Does that mean it'll never have problems? Of course not!

Quote:

My suggestion?
Take a real good look at a Chevy, Dodge, or Ford Sportsmobile.


Rude.
Take a hike, I'm growing tired of your rudeness.
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Terry Kay
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the shoe fits---

If being rude equates to telling you the truth --so be it.
read it and weep.

You gotta make up your own mind what the hell you wanna do.

I'm real tired of doing the soft shoe BS PC mode---

Do something.
See the USA in your Chevrolet
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kamzcab86
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Californio wrote:
Call me a traitor, but if you aren't mechanically inclined and have that much to spend, you might look into a Eurovan. They're newer and easier to have serviced at dealers and other places that won't look at Vanagons. Not my cup of tea but I did look inside one in a campground and it was more modern, kind of nice. I suppose it would be possible to find one with genuinely low miles, good maintenance history, etc.


Ironic: A couple weeks ago we camped at a campground near Bryce Canyon. Parked down below us was an EVC. The next morning said EVC was being loaded up on a AAA flatbed. We chatted with the two ladies traveling in it and here's what the owner of that 2001 EVC said: "I owned a 1984 Westfalia and trading it in on this thing (the EVC) was a big mistake. I wish I still had my Westfalia. This thing (the EVC) is just junk." I said, "But it has modern conveniences!" She replied, "Yeah, and they don't work!" Her parting words: "No matter how much it costs you, forever keep your Westfalia!" The interesting part of the story is that this was the first time her EVC had broken down on the road, and she bought it new in '01.

As I said before, go look at them both and drive them both and have them inspected. Both are going to require attention, so it's really a crap-shoot, not to mention one costs twice as much as the other.
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Californio
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yup, if it's a car, it'll break down sooner or later...

Anecdote that illustrates what I mean. I'm not a mechanic by any stretch of the imagination, but out of necessity I've been messing with cars for 40 years or so, so I have some idea of what's going on.

I was down a tiny dirt road in a National Forest, way way off the beaten path, maybe a walk of 10 miles and god knows the cost to tow. Engine stops dead. Real oh shit moment.

But I got lucky. The spade connector for the fuel pump had come off. Easiest fix you can imagine--but you had to have some clue what to look for. If I hadn't had at least some diagnostic skills, I would have paid maybe $500 for a tow! Drove out and was on my way.

Kind of depends on where you're going with these, too. If you're doing backroads, learn your stufff and bring tools. If it's state parks and buying groceries, not so important.
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debbiej
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm a woman and an older one at that. before our current westfalia, my husband and I have owned 4 vanagons and several other vw cars. I have always longed for a westfalia. almost bought several, but my husband was pretty picky. finally the time was right, and I begin to search in earnest. we found one that met his requirements. decent body, manual tranny, air conditioning that worked (tough, and I could live without) good engine.

I love my westy. read and research and save up money on it's behalf. it is so worth it. there is nothing that is what it is.

we have done some repairs ourself, had other repairs done.

we have also needed work done on our 04 passat and our ford truck. the westfalia is my favorite vehicle. I try not to drive it all the time, but look for excuses to do so.

be picky. the right one will come along. it will be worth the wait.
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funagon
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 11:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tourmaline wrote:
Terry Kay:

Quote:

My suggestion?
Take a real good look at a Chevy, Dodge, or Ford Sportsmobile.


Rude.
Take a hike, I'm growing tired of your rudeness.


Don't let Terry bother you. He's been writing this way for years. You won't change him. He's sometimes clueless about polite conversation, sometimes funny, sometimes has good advice, and always gives his opinion. Learn to separate the good advice from the opinion.

You can laugh at his style of writing and not let it get under your skin. We always have people on the samba that get bent out of shape by his style of repartee. But I believe Mr. Kay lends his advice in an honest attempt to help and be part of the conversation, some people just don't like the style of delivery.

Just think of Terry as a cute mascot, like Oscar the Grouch. Oscar will make you laugh, and sometimes you can learn something from him!



Link


I think those vans you're looking at sound expensive. I guess $12k is not too much for a pristine late model westy. But it's too much for me! As for the other van, I don't think adding a gowesty engine makes a van worth 20-something grand. It's just an engine. You can buy a cheap vanagon with good paint and interior, and a blown up engine. Have your mechanic install a new gowesty engine and transmission and you'll be ahead of the game.

I think this is the best way to go: buy a van for good bodywork, paint, and interior. If it has engine trouble you make a low, lowball offer. Then you have lots of cash to play with putting in a new engine and other mechanicals. This way you know what you've got.

I wrote a few words at this link (between the pictures) about keeping it all in perspective, meaning I think it is possible to have a van that works and drives all over the place and you don't have to worry about it:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=4912037&highlight=perspective#4912037
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fredn
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 1:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"plus he's put thousands into it for new GoWesty engine, tranny, etc. "

Don't assume this is a good thing. Search shorepig who's is a samba user who had a nightmare experience with his gowesty engine that has yet to end. When i see a go westy engine for sale I think people are trying to cut their losses.
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morymob
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 4:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

25k?? I would write that one off no matter what's been done to it. The other one, after a thorough check out and drive by someone who knows WBX's then i would start the price haggle. Still 12k is too much and i would move on, just my 2cts.
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DAIZEE
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No no no. TK is an Electrolux Vacuum, the best in the world UNTIL the Dyson came along! Wink

Sorry Tourmaline you'll have to read about my past as its my past. I'm trying so hard to move on and to be positive and turn things around. I love my Riviera, I absolutely adore it and that's what I dwell on now that and Spring 2011! Very Happy .
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Williamtaylor33
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 7:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Terry Kay wrote:

I'm real tired of doing the soft shoe BS PC mode---

Do something.
See the USA in your Chevrolet

Have you ever done the soft shoe PC mode?
This is a vanagon forum...your advice to go buy a chevy instead is kinda stupid. If you dont like vanagons then why do you hang out here?


To the OP......
My best advice is to save up your money and wait...
A deal will come along and when it does you will have to act fast!
Trust me on that one. When good deals pop up on the samba sometimes the ads are gone within 30 minutes or less...Especially with syncros....
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D Clymer
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

funagon wrote:


Don't let Terry bother you. He's been writing this way for years. You won't change him. He's sometimes clueless about polite conversation, sometimes funny, sometimes has good advice, and always gives his opinion. Learn to separate the good advice from the opinion.

You can laugh at his style of writing and not let it get under your skin. We always have people on the samba that get bent out of shape by his style of repartee. But I believe Mr. Kay lends his advice in an honest attempt to help and be part of the conversation, some people just don't like the style of delivery.



I agree. Terry K has contributed a lot of helpful info on this forum over the years. If you ever want to know something about paint, rust issues, or have A/C system questions he is the one to ask. His writing style has more of a sense of humor to it than it seems to when taken at face value. Do I think he could do himself a favor by not writing so provacatively? Absolutely. But I value his input on here, even in the style it appears.

And FWIW, I don't think he was trying to be rude about the Chevy, Ford, or Dodge Sportsmobile suggestion. He owns a Sportsmobile and actually likes them. His comment was just that if someone has limited mechanical abilities, maybe a newer vehicle is a better choice. VW doesn't make anything like a Vanagon anymore, so he was suggesting what is available.

I personally believe Vanagons are built like a tank, and they are one of the only vehicles I know of that can have 300K on the odometer and still drive tight as a drum. If you get a good mechanic who can help you with the mechanical needs, I think a late model Vanagon camper is a good choice - even with limited mechanical abilities. Good advice has been given on here to not put too much into the mileage and instead look at overall condition and maintenance history. That's what's most important.

David
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DAIZEE
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bottom line is if anyone wants to own a Vanagon, then do your homework, hear all the pros and cons, be careful and diligent, know that's it's gonna cost you $$$ regardless of the initial price you pay but be smart ask real questions here and out there but make them real questions. Listen to people to learn but if you've done your home work and have the proper knowledge and its a Vanagon you want, well that's your decision. At one time in life human beings make mistakes, just don't let this be one of them. I tell the good and bad about any vehicle I sell, that's the best I can do. Do your best but what's the old boy scout motto "Be Prepared". I gain respect for any seller when its not all good. Good luck
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tourmaline
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks to everyone who has replied, I appreciate all your responses. Just a few things:

Syncrodoka: Believe me, my van is always up on jackstands and I am always down there underneath it with my socket wrench in hand. I do study my Bentley & Haynes manuals and they are a big help. But as Californio mentioned, the main problem area is in diagnostics. I don't have the knowledge and experience to diagnose a problem...which is a problem. Confused I feel like if I had a torque wrench and other tools, I could tackle pretty much any fix...as long as I know what needs fixing in the first place. I very much like your idea of taking an automotive class at a community college. I did a cursory Google search for such a class in my area a few weeks ago, but all I saw were training classes for people who were actively seeking to become professional mechanics. I will search further, I live in a city in the Northwest so I'm sure there are classes offered here that would be ideal for me. I think that'll be my next step.

DebbieJ: It sounds like you and I are very much on the same page with our love of Vanagon Westys. Thanks for your post, I also believe that when the time is right, the right one will present itself.

Funagon: That's a good idea. My ideal Westy would be '91 automatic, burgundy, in excellent condition inside and out with all original stock parts mechanically and inside. I just looked at the Blue Book prices for a vehicle like that and the Blue Book prices are quite inexpensive compared to those two I was looking at. Of course both had new/rebuilt engines put in but still... They are both significantly overpriced, which is good to know.

D Clymer: Yay, good to know! Thanks for the encouragement. Very Happy
FYI: My daily driver is a 1996 Suzuki Sidekick with 85k miles on it. It purrs like a kitten and drives smooth. I drive it very gently and get it maintiained regularly and have never had a problem with it other than a little AC fix a couple years ago. And 1996 is only 5 years newer than the 1991 Vanagons. As I've said before in this thread, I think people take it as a given that because of their age, any late model Vanagon is going to have some big-time problems. But my experience has been that age & mileage is not such a definitive indicator of condition.

Daizee: I'm sorry you had such a negative experience. I did find your older thread about your experiences. What a nightmare, emotionally, financially, etc. Hope things are smoothing out now.
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Terry Kay
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like stimulating thought in a gregarious manner so you don't have any doubt where I'm coming from--or going.

OK--you think Vanagons are cute.
They have a look of their own.
The drive like an 65 Ford Econoline, Chevy Sportsman, or Dodge A-100 Van--over the axle seating for the driver & passenger--neat.

But this is where the difference starts & stops.
Parts are available for the three I mentioned above--cheap.
Some Vanagon parts are slipping away into obsurity, and are no longer available, or if you do find them they are expensive--much more than the three USA vehicle I mentioned. Surely something to consider.

Finding, locating somebody to perform menial tasks of repair on them can be difficult.
Many VW dealer's won't even talk to you if you showed up with one.
Most of the old timers who worked as mechanics at VW are all retired--gone.
The kids wrenching now don't even know where to start.
This is a fact to really consider.

Yes I had a 92 Dodge SMB.
Had zero issues or problems with it, traveled far and fast with it.
Had all of the ammenities my Westfaila's had--plus more all in pretty much the same area.

The almost full size Norcold kept ice cream rock hard in a full size freezer.
And there were more--but too uto drop on you all at one time.

I gave my Boy the Sportmobile for his family--he camps using a pop top trailer, and he need some more HP to pull it , and wanted some privacy from my two grandkids when parked.
The kids go in the trailer, my Son & my daughter in law can have some privacy for those intmate moments in the SMB.

The only warning I have with the Vanagon Westfalia really would be that for every mile traveled your going to have to invest X amount of time as a pay off.
And that's the way it just is.

The Vanagon is a higher maintainence vehicle than the Chevy Ford or the Dodge SMB.

And I will attest to the fact you could buy one hell of a nice, low mileage SMB for a bunch less than what your talking about.
And it'll free up a bunch of time in taking care of it.

I wasn't trying to be a smart ass, I was telling you the truth and giving you something to also take a look at--possibly for less, and get you farther with less hassle.

I still have 3 Westfaila's--74, 87, & 89.

And I would pretty much have to classify them as play toys, not serious long ride traveling machines.

Why?

Been stranded once in BFE, towed 300 miles, and that was pretty much the end of the long haul VW trips.

Neat toys to have, and as possible collectables, but that's where it stops & starts.

Don't get buried too deep right from the get go--
Now is a good time to be looking for a Westy.

It's fall, going on winter, folks are more prone to cut a deal when they are going to have to pay for storage for the winter.
There should be much better deal abounding comng up pretty quick--and maybe some nice stuff too--

Spring & summer are the worst time to be looking---it's time to camp and deals aren't as easy.

Good Luck---
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tourmaline
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Terry: I'm sorry I snapped at you before but there are a couple things:

First of all, I don't just think they look "cute." I know you don't mean any offense by comments like that, but it is demeaning to me as a woman when you dismiss my love of Westy's by implying that I simplistically think they make a cute accessory...like a "cute" handbag or a "cute" pair of earrings. You know nothing about me, my life, or the larger purpose of my interest in Vanagon Westys. So you have no right to try to dissuade me, based on my gender or my perceived lack of mechanical abilities. I have the ability to learn new things, including auto mechanics.

Number two: Why are you trying so hard to dissuade me from buying a '91 Westy camper when, if you read my signature, you will see that I already own one? And the one I own is 10 years older than a '91 at that. I am no fool. I know EXACTLY what I am getting into with Westfalias because I am an owner of one, and I work on it every day. Your comments suggest that I'm a smitten kid who wants a new play-thing...that is not the case, I assure you. I am not as Vanagon-clueless as you seem to think.

With those things said, I do appreciate much of your guidance and I acknowledge that you have a lot to offer on this forum. Just try not to talk down to me, please, and we'll get a long just fine. Wink
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