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Darth VeeDub Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2010 Posts: 48
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Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 11:44 am Post subject: 1979 2.0L fi Alternator upgrade (55 to 70 amp) |
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Hello all, new to the forums/site. Love the classified section and I am sure the tech. section is spot on.
I am looking to upgrade my alternator in my 79 Bus (2.0L fi)
I have a 55 amp, looking to move up to a 70 amp (have plans for electric seat heaters/defrosters). With audio/video family comforts added later on.
Not sure where to get mt grubby hands on the upgrade alt w/o breaking the bank.
I am soon purchasing a BN/4 Eberspacher. So the seat heaters will be auxiliary, though the defroster heaters I will have to run will be mandatory in the winters here in Omaha.
here's a pic of my rusty bus
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Randy in Maine Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2003 Posts: 34890 Location: The Beach
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Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 11:58 am Post subject: |
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All you really need is the alternator, the voltage regulator, and the cooling boot.
I think the wiring harness is the same.
Why not just install a second deep cycle camping battery to run some of that stuff off of, and allow the stock unit to charge it as you drive? |
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aeromech Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 16898 Location: San Diego, California
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Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 11:59 am Post subject: |
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I don't know of one for your type 4 engine but I don't know much either. It might be possible for a shop to upgrade your existing one. _________________ Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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Dennis Perusse Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2006 Posts: 156 Location: amesbury, mass
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Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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Hello,
I agree with Randy in Maine on this. It might be easier just to do the second battery. My personal suggestion is to make sure that all of your stuff in and on your bus is in excellent working order first. Deal with the rust, make sure that all of your electrical connections are good. Plus check around to make sure all of your cables are good too and your heater boxes are okay. Once that is all done then check to see how your head is and then make the appropriate choices. At the end of the day it is your vehicle and you do need to do what you feel is right for it but doing the aforementioned stuff first and you'll still come out way ahead as some of your mods may take some time to do.
Best of luck;
Dennis |
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aeromech Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 16898 Location: San Diego, California
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Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:14 pm Post subject: |
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I guess the first thing to do would be to try to estimate the max load on the system. By that I mean driving with the headlights on, the flashers, the fans running, the heated seats, stereo blasting, etc. Your alternator would have to be able to produce the amps needed and even if you had a second battery, that eventually would wear down if the alternator output was exceeded. You probably need both. A high output alternator plus an aux battery because you would no doubt want to use these things when you're parked at some point. _________________ Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51003 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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Randy in Maine wrote: |
All you really need is the alternator, the voltage regulator, and the cooling boot.
I think the wiring harness is the same. |
Close, the reg is the same but the harness is different (the end that plugs into the alt.). _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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Randy in Maine Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2003 Posts: 34890 Location: The Beach
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Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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busdaddy wrote: |
Randy in Maine wrote: |
All you really need is the alternator, the voltage regulator, and the cooling boot.
I think the wiring harness is the same. |
Close, the reg is the same but the harness is different (the end that plugs into the alt.). |
It is all coming back to me. That harness that plugs into the alternator is a nightmare to install with the engine in or out. It took me 2 hours to do it. |
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WhirledTraveller Samba Member
Joined: January 09, 2008 Posts: 1399 Location: Cambridge, MA
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Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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I have to laugh, this is somehow typical TheSamba where everybody chimes in with sage advice but doesn't actually answer the question (where to find a 70 amp alternator).
They are in fact kind of rare. Even more rare is the cooling fan/pulley. I have in the past seen the 70 amp alternators sold rebuilt at places like Autozone but without a similar core you will get dinged for that, and chances are they won't have the pulley. Bus Depot also carries the alternator but it's pricey and doesn't have the pulley.
I've also in the past seen upgraded/high amp Bosch alternators sold on ebay including stock alternators that have been rewired. Search for "AL75X" for the stock 55 amp and "AL108X" for the 70 AMP. I see some for $225 that appear to include the pulley.
Beyond that, call around to the various used parts places that specialize in Buses (particularly places in Canada where they sold a lot more BA6 heaters) and check the classifieds. _________________ 1977 Westy, Automatic. Big Valve heads, CS Cam. |
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Oil Phil-M Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2005 Posts: 541 Location: Vancouver, BC
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Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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When I made the change with my '72 I also needed to change the tin work the alternator butts up against. The extra cooling fan on the 70A unit needed the tin to be recessed a bit more than the pulley only feature for the 55A units.
I picked up an old used unit for cheap and had it rebuilt by an alternator/starter speacialist. They were able to jack up the output to just shy of 90A for a couple hundred $.
Sounds like your electrical needs are going to be for when you are actually driving and not for stationary use. For that you need a bigger alternator. Extra batteries are for when you are not generating power. They can help carry some of the power deficit but you will need an additional battery charger and plug in your bus regularly. Otherwise the batteries will never fully recharge which is something lead-acid batteries hate. |
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WhirledTraveller Samba Member
Joined: January 09, 2008 Posts: 1399 Location: Cambridge, MA
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Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 10:16 am Post subject: |
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Just an update... I checked and autozone carries a "Duralast" 70 amp alternator, sold without pulley for only 67.99 + 35 core, so it would be 102.99 total since you wouldn't have a core. This is certainly the cheapest you will find but I know nothing about quality. Then you would need to source the pulley/fan, probably used from somewhere, and the cooling boot can be obtained from bus depot. I don't think you need any new tin for a '79 and your wiring harness should be usable with minor modification, or you an order a new one from "Old Volks Home" advertises here on TheSamba. I have one of his new harnesses and it fits and works like original. _________________ 1977 Westy, Automatic. Big Valve heads, CS Cam. |
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XXX/Rx/RnR Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2008 Posts: 405 Location: valley of the sun
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Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 6:33 am Post subject: |
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I did this upgrade. Alt. and boot from BD. Cooling fan off a bug alt. I had a different alt. tin from a early t-4, but it was too small. Retained the cracked one I had. I have a second battery that supplies a invertor and furnace charged by a 2amp/hr solar panel. 2 gel batteries, alt., issolator, invertor, solar panel, cable and mis. over a grand. No charging issues. Its hard to find a core for a 70amp Bosch. |
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drober23 Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2009 Posts: 787 Location: Detroit, MI
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Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 8:33 am Post subject: |
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The electric heat items are the bid energy hogs here. If you get the BN4, there will not be a need for these. Just set the BN4 on for a few minutes to thaw out the bus before you get in and drive.
The BN4 provides heat through your existing venting, so it should be able to provide defrost for you. Also, if you do a good job of sealing the leaky spots in your stock exhaust it will go a long way toward increasing the airflow delivered by your system with or without the BN4 kicking in. _________________ DJ
'75 Westfalia, '79 Deluxe, and some others...
(more busses than sense)
In a time of chimpanzees I was a monkey |
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1975 Kombi Samba Member
Joined: August 12, 2007 Posts: 2452 Location: Acton, Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 8:41 am Post subject: |
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The 70amp alts are quite common in Canada because they came married with the BA6 and the defrost fans. I had mine sort of rebiult but the brush packs are NLA from the Canadian suppliers so he did everything but the brushes. I have been trying to source out the brush packs but I can't find anyone. But 8 out of 10 buses here have the 70 amp. _________________ Brett
“He’s decieving you boy! Reach into his pocket and take what he’s got.” Mr. Crabbs.
75 Westy auto
03 Jetta TDI
71 SB
74 Westy
Licensed pilot (single engine land VFR)
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Rust In Pieces: 72 Bug, 73 Bug, 81 Rabbit LS D 2D, 83 Rabbit D 2D, 84 Jetta TD GL, 85 Jetta D, 68 Z28 RS 302, 91 Passat 16v |
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Darth VeeDub Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2010 Posts: 48
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Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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1975 Kombi wrote: |
The 70amp alts are quite common in Canada because they came married with the BA6 and the defrost fans. I had mine sort of rebiult but the brush packs are NLA from the Canadian suppliers so he did everything but the brushes. I have been trying to source out the brush packs but I can't find anyone. But 8 out of 10 buses here have the 70 amp. |
Thanks for the info!
I am beginning to wonder if my bus has a 70A in it already...being the inquisitive owner that I am (with everything I own) I finally had time to poke around my bus (scary considering I drove it 800+ miles upon purchase 2 weeks ago).
I was able to find a BA6 Heater tucked under the big skid plate. It looks all there, though some clamps were rusted and some boots/seals need replaced.
Any way I can check my alternator physically to see if it has the 70A? Thanks again ppz.
Darth |
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1975 Kombi Samba Member
Joined: August 12, 2007 Posts: 2452 Location: Acton, Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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Does the alt have a pulley with a fan attached (70amp) without a fan attached to the pulley (55 amp)
70amp below
_________________ Brett
“He’s decieving you boy! Reach into his pocket and take what he’s got.” Mr. Crabbs.
75 Westy auto
03 Jetta TDI
71 SB
74 Westy
Licensed pilot (single engine land VFR)
--
Rust In Pieces: 72 Bug, 73 Bug, 81 Rabbit LS D 2D, 83 Rabbit D 2D, 84 Jetta TD GL, 85 Jetta D, 68 Z28 RS 302, 91 Passat 16v |
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Hoody Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2007 Posts: 1948
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Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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If it has the cooling fan in back of the pulley as pictured above it's a 70 amp alternator. Personally I am very skeptical about trusting 30 year old gas heaters. |
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ToolBox Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2004 Posts: 3439 Location: Detroit, where they don't jack parts off my ride in the parking lot of the 7-11
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Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 9:15 am Post subject: |
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Hoody wrote: |
If it has the cooling fan in back of the pulley as pictured above it's a 70 amp alternator. Personally I am very skeptical about trusting 30 year old gas heaters. |
That's why you service it properly before firing it up and using it. I would be worried more by 30 year old seat belts than a properly serviced heater. |
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Darth VeeDub Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2010 Posts: 48
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Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 10:28 am Post subject: |
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Thanks Brett for the pic, turns out my Alt. is a 70A, now to just test how many Amps it is still crankin out. (i guess its time to get an Amp meter and install it)
As for the BA6, I do plan on "refurbishing" it to get it up to par if I have any hopes of it heating my bus safely thru the winter. Most of the electrical connections and rubber gaskets look to be in great shape (rubber still very pliable)
Unfortunately, I dont have any parts of the stock exhaust left, I bought this bus as is and it has headers into cherry bombs! lol I would like to get a decent pair of heater boxes (exchangers) but I cannot afford any that I have seen yet
soon I shall have my repair book, if the seller ever shipped it, until then, I shall keep reading and chiming in from time to time (gonna throw up an intro today)
Thanks again ppz |
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Oil Phil-M Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2005 Posts: 541 Location: Vancouver, BC
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Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 11:07 am Post subject: |
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Quote: |
Thanks Brett for the pic, turns out my Alt. is a 70A, now to just test how many Amps it is still crankin out. (i guess its time to get an Amp meter and install it)
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Better than the extra cooling fan (which I've seen added to a 55A unit) is to check the backside of the alternator. 55A units have a black backing plate with an oval cooling boot opening while the 70A units like the picture have the round cooling opening built into the housing.
Are you talking about hookin up an Amp meters or an Amp gauge? Meters are temporarily connected to measure amps which requires some rigging of the wiring to trick the alternator to max output. Gauges when permanently installed do not indicate alternator output, they show how many amps are going into or out of the battery (except for the juice going to the starter). You only need a 30 amp gauge which wouldn't be enough to set up as a temporary meter. Any alternator shop can put the alternator onto a load tester and give you an output reading for $10.
I was told oil blown into the alternator through the cooling boot is one of the biggest killer of amp output for the T4 setup. |
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Darth VeeDub Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2010 Posts: 48
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Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 11:10 am Post subject: |
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sweet, I will have to double check for those items you mentioned (black back and oval vs. round hole)
the oil should not be an issue, although not super clean, I have yet to see my bus leave behind a drop, but that doesn't mean its not leaking somewhere higher up etc. but yes, very good info nonetheless, thanks! |
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