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Team WorldTour
Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 2426
Location: Der Vaterland
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 Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 9:53 pm Post subject: Re: The big Vanagon failures, wrecks and fires thread! |
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Blazecut- If I could afford one, I'd buy one (or more!).
Anyone know offhand how many Diesel vans have gone up in flames?
_________________
1990 Feldjäger Syncro AAZ
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H6 Subaru Engine Swap Thread
WV2ZZZ25ZFH094138(x)/ WV2YB0257LH057308(x)/ WV2ZZZ25ZLG113270/
"Where am I going? And what am I doing in this handbasket?" -Nicodemus Jordan
When All Else Fails: Lather, Rinse, Repeat! |
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rmcd
Samba Member
Joined: October 29, 2010
Posts: 1348
Location: PNW - its a dry rain.
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:25 pm Post subject: Re: The big Vanagon failures, wrecks and fires thread! |
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Ok bring on the flames.
Anyone have experience with blazecut and an actual Vanagon fuel fire?
_________________
VW LT40 build. Like a Vanagon but 30% larger in every direction and 40% slower even in metric.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=749359&highlight= |
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turbotransporter
Samba Member
Joined: February 19, 2006
Posts: 459
Location: Bainbridge Island WA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:54 am Post subject: Re: The big Vanagon failures, wrecks and fires thread! |
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Very good question... I have a friend who's a fire suppression expert and designs fire suppression systems for commercial applications. I've shared this "application" with him and asked for his professional opinion. He laughed and said "it's better than nothing but don't bet your life on it". 
He added that it would have a better chance of actually working if the fire was quite small, had a very limited fuel supply and the vehicle was stationary and in an enclosed area with little or no air movement like a garage.
For me, safe work practices, regular maintenance and a pre-flight equipment check is a better use of resources but that's just 28 years of smoke free Vanagon ownership talking 
| rmcd wrote: |
Ok bring on the flames.
Anyone have experience with blazecut and an actual Vanagon fuel fire? |
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VanAllen_84
Samba Member
Joined: October 17, 2016
Posts: 55
Location: Ventura County
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:55 pm Post subject: Re: The big Vanagon failures, wrecks and fires thread! |
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This just sucks!.... The owner recently listed it on Craigslist selling the whole van as-is for parts. Surprisingly, none of the windows were broken.
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1984 VW Vanagon Westfalia 1.9L Water-cooled (aka "Osmo") |
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22648
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 9:00 pm Post subject: Re: The big Vanagon failures, wrecks and fires thread! |
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Westie with the rare oak top option
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.ssS! |
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rmcd
Samba Member
Joined: October 29, 2010
Posts: 1348
Location: PNW - its a dry rain.
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:02 pm Post subject: Re: The big Vanagon failures, wrecks and fires thread! |
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| turbotransporter wrote: |
Very good question... I have a friend who's a fire suppression expert and designs fire suppression systems for commercial applications. I've shared this "application" with him and asked for his professional opinion. He laughed and said "it's better than nothing but don't bet your life on it".
He added that it would have a better chance of actually working if the fire was quite small, had a very limited fuel supply and the vehicle was stationary and in an enclosed area with little or no air movement like a garage.
For me, safe work practices, regular maintenance and a pre-flight equipment check is a better use of resources but that's just 28 years of smoke free Vanagon ownership talking
| rmcd wrote: |
Ok bring on the flames.
Anyone have experience with blazecut and an actual Vanagon fuel fire? |
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One has to be better than a strategy of "hope".
I'd be inclined to put six or eight of them in there. Seriously though one doesn't seem like it would be able to stop the fire for long enough to wait for the ignition source to cool or fuel source to stop flowing.
Maybe one will give enough time to get to a the real long gun - an abc fire extinguisher?
I'll end up deploying $300 worth of hope.
_________________
VW LT40 build. Like a Vanagon but 30% larger in every direction and 40% slower even in metric.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=749359&highlight= |
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candyman
Samba Trout Slayer
Joined: December 20, 2003
Posts: 2694
Location: Missoula MT
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| Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 11:58 am Post subject: Re: The big Vanagon failures, wrecks and fires thread! |
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| rmcd wrote: |
| turbotransporter wrote: |
Very good question... I have a friend who's a fire suppression expert and designs fire suppression systems for commercial applications. I've shared this "application" with him and asked for his professional opinion. He laughed and said "it's better than nothing but don't bet your life on it".
He added that it would have a better chance of actually working if the fire was quite small, had a very limited fuel supply and the vehicle was stationary and in an enclosed area with little or no air movement like a garage.
For me, safe work practices, regular maintenance and a pre-flight equipment check is a better use of resources but that's just 28 years of smoke free Vanagon ownership talking
| rmcd wrote: |
Ok bring on the flames.
Anyone have experience with blazecut and an actual Vanagon fuel fire? |
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One has to be better than a strategy of "hope".
I'd be inclined to put six or eight of them in there. Seriously though one doesn't seem like it would be able to stop the fire for long enough to wait for the ignition source to cool or fuel source to stop flowing.
Maybe one will give enough time to get to a the real long gun - an abc fire extinguisher?
I'll end up deploying $300 worth of hope. |
I look at it as buying a little time why i get my family out safely and can then attend to it with an extinguisher. Imho just having a blazecut is not enough but just a step in the process. Proper extinguisher(s), proper maintenance, good game plan and blazecut is how I roll |
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levi
Samba Member
Joined: February 11, 2005
Posts: 5522
Location: Las Vegas
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| Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:30 pm Post subject: Re: The big Vanagon failures, wrecks and fires thread! |
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https://youtu.be/Kswau1mGBE8
There IS quite a lot of burn time before it kicks in, but it would sure be better than total destruction.
_________________
One of these days I'm gonna settle down,
but till I do I won't be hangin round.
Going down that long lonesome highway,
gonna see life my way
https://youtu.be/cSrL0BXsO40 |
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Forthwithtx
Samba Member
Joined: July 14, 2014
Posts: 717
Location: Fort Worth
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| Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 4:52 pm Post subject: Re: The big Vanagon failures, wrecks and fires thread! |
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Don't know if this would fit in most engine bays:
Link
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Cheers!
-Karl
'84 GL with 2001/2004 Subaru 2.5L |
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dhaavers
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 7756
Location: NE MN (tinyurl.com/dhaaverslocation)
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| Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:36 pm Post subject: Re: The big Vanagon failures, wrecks and fires thread! |
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^^^ Found those online a few years ago but at the time never found a supplier.
Maybe things have changed since then...definitely looks useful in a van engine bay...
- Dave
_________________
86 White Wolfsburg Westy Weekender
"The WonderVan"
<EDITED TO PROTECT INNOCENT PIXELS> |
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Christopher Schimke
Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2005
Posts: 5390
Location: PNW
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levi
Samba Member
Joined: February 11, 2005
Posts: 5522
Location: Las Vegas
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 8:20 pm Post subject: Re: The big Vanagon failures, wrecks and fires thread! |
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You sure thats the correct link
_________________
One of these days I'm gonna settle down,
but till I do I won't be hangin round.
Going down that long lonesome highway,
gonna see life my way
https://youtu.be/cSrL0BXsO40 |
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kamzcab86
Samba Moderator
Joined: July 26, 2008
Posts: 7917
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 9:10 pm Post subject: Re: The big Vanagon failures, wrecks and fires thread! |
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| levi wrote: |
| You sure thats the correct link |
Correct link, but a slight pain to get to the video. Found it on YouTube... not for the faint of heart  :
[Edit 2: Video removed from YT due to media copyright claim  ; click the link below, it's the first video]
According to a short news article, the van driver got out in time.
Edit: http://www.1limburg.nl/busje-op-a2-vliegt-brand
_________________
~Kamz 
1986 Cabriolet: www.Cabby-Info.com
 1990 Vanagon Westfalia: Old Blue's Blog
2016 Golf GTI S
"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance." - 孔子
Last edited by kamzcab86 on Mon May 29, 2017 10:34 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Merian
Samba Member
Joined: January 04, 2014
Posts: 5212
Location: Orygun
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| Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 10:05 pm Post subject: Re: The big Vanagon failures, wrecks and fires thread! |
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I assume that was not a Tesla conversion...
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Steve M.
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2013
Posts: 6829
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Fl.
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| Posted: Mon May 29, 2017 7:39 am Post subject: Re: The big Vanagon failures, wrecks and fires thread! |
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| levi wrote: |
https://youtu.be/Kswau1mGBE8
There IS quite a lot of burn time before it kicks in, but it would sure be better than total destruction. |
In regards to a Fuel Fire:
The one thing in this video that unequals the equation for the Vanagons is that the air-cooled engines are dependent on the air tight engine shrouds which aside from the two air chimneys on each side basically makes this a sealed compartment.
I'd like to see the demonstration with the Vanagon engine bay and no shrouds which is going to show the extinguishing agent escaping out past the engine.
If we are lucky the Blazecut will give us a few more seconds. Seconds are very valuable to use wisely.
What else can you do to add to the seconds ticking away.
Another item that will help is getting rid of the plastic cover over the engine compartment. I think the diesels had the metal covers over the engine compartment.
If you can't do that then you can attach a "Fire Blanket" to the underside which again will help slow down the fire getting through the cover.
Once the fire burns through the cover the Vanagon is another piece of history.
http://www.americanfiresleeve.com/industrial-marin...r-now.html
Another thing you can do is to cover the the fuel lines with fire sleeves which will protect them from being burned through.
However I have a problem doing that even though I have done it to the fuel lines.
http://www.americanfiresleeve.com/aviation-marine-...cable.html
Realistically how long would it take a fire to burn through a rubber fuel line?
It will do it for sure, but not before the fire gets a hold on the oil soaked foam engine cover and burns through if it isn't metal or protected by a fire blanket.
A fire blanket will not absorb oil, but the fire blanket hasn't been on there 30 years absorbing oil like the foam has.
It is not a bad idea to replace the foam with some mylar faced insulating sound barrier vinyl foam. That will help reduce noise and some of the heat coming up through the engine cover while driving.
The fuel line clamps are the source of fuel leaks unless a fuel line is rubbing against a part of the engine and chaffs through. Then it will spray fuel over the hot engine and then you can kiss it goodbye.
Old fuel lines will be weakened on the ends where the clamps have been squeezing them not to mention fuel seeping through any areas of dry rot on the outside of the rubber.
The fire sleeve will give the fuel line some protection against chaffing. It is better to securely mount the fuel lines against movement. The only section of fuel line that needs to move is the bit from the firewall to the engine as the engine is going to vibrate and you have to have flexibility in that line.
That is assuming you have removed the 30 year old plastic bit that connects the fuel line from the fuel pump at the firewall to the fuel lines in the engine.
You can either replace with a metal version or remove it entirely.
The last thing is the Fuel Rails right there at the injectors. The originals are plastic and after 30 years they can be leaking from the crimped metal holding the end plug in place. If those metal crimps are rusty- replace them.
These are ideally located right above the hot exhaust so if they leak that is not exactly where you want the leak to start.
The vendors are making metal fuel rails to replace them.
So the last thing you have is your handheld fire extinguisher.
The problem with fire extinguishers is that they work! That's a good thing, but unless you have the right one the aftermath is going to be a corroded engine as the extinguishing agent eats the metal of the engine. This would be the ABC fire extinguisher you buy at Home Depot or wherever you get it.
"Dry chemical extinguishers can be quite corrosive to metals such as aluminum and are also potentially abrasive. ABC extinguishers are much more corrosive than BC extinguishers because the ammonium phosphate agent can undergo hydrolysis to form phosphoric acid and because the molten agent flows into minute cracks."
So the alternative fire extinguishing agent in a handheld extinguisher is:
http://www.halotron.com/halotron1.php
| Quote: |
| Also, unlike traditional dry chemical agents such as monoammonium phosphate (ABC Dry Chemical) or potassium bicarbonate (Purple K), which can be corrosive, Halotron I is a clean agent that leaves no residue after application, and consequently inflicts little to no collateral damage on equipment in the vicinity of the fire. |
https://www.amazon.com/Kidde-466727-Halotron-Extinguisher-2-Pound/dp/B001ECQ5NE
| Quote: |
Amerex Halon extinguishers will give the same 10 secs discharge time weather it’s a 5 LBS or a 2.5LBS. What you gain with a 5LBS extinguisher is about 2’ in range and usually a better UL rating. The UL rating between a 5LBS and 2.5LBS is the same. Both have a 5 UL rating. Halotron 1 extinguisher specs are almost the same as Halon, except they have a lower UL rating.
The key to putting out an engine fire is getting to it ASAP. This means quick access to your extinguisher. Gas agent extinguishers like Halon and Halotron 1 can be used to extinguish an engine fire through the grill. Opening the hood of a car with an engine fire can make the fire worse due to the increase exposure to oxygen. |
However, having a handheld fire extinguisher is paramount no matter what kind you have.
The bottom line is I'd rather have a mess then a burned out Vanagon or a house.
There is also this product which I think the NHRA uses, but I don't know that personally-just second hand through reading about it. "ColdFire" is the brand name of it.
http://firefreeze.com/products/
Another key thing to be able to stop is the fuel pump because it is fueling the fire. Stop the fuel and you have a better chance.
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This free advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.
There are seven days in a week. Someday is not one of them.
Last edited by Steve M. on Mon May 29, 2017 9:34 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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Steve M.
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2013
Posts: 6829
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Fl.
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| Posted: Mon May 29, 2017 7:41 am Post subject: Re: The big Vanagon failures, wrecks and fires thread! |
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| kamzcab86 wrote: |
| levi wrote: |
| You sure thats the correct link |
Correct link, but a slight pain to get to the video. Found it on YouTube... not for the faint of heart :
[Video]
According to a short news article, the van driver got out in time.
Edit: http://www.1limburg.nl/busje-op-a2-vliegt-brand |
The video was removed due to a claim by some media company trying to get money for it.
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This free advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.
There are seven days in a week. Someday is not one of them. |
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vwhammer
Samba Member
Joined: May 20, 2006
Posts: 998
Location: Boulder CO.
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| Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 8:09 pm Post subject: Re: The big Vanagon failures, wrecks and fires thread! |
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Might be old.
May have been posted yesterday.
To be honest I did not go through all the pages to see but I found this and wondered what possible lapse in attention or judgement could have lead to this.
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jimf909 
Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2014
Posts: 7466
Location: WA/ID
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| Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 9:18 pm Post subject: Re: The big Vanagon failures, wrecks and fires thread! |
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^^^ Heelarious. How much ya wanna bet that was preceded with:
"Halten Sie mein Bier und passen Sie dieses"
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- Jim
| Abscate wrote: |
Do not get killed, do not kill others.
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Current: 1990 Westy Camper - Bostig RG4, 2wd, manual trans w/Peloquin, NAHT high-top, 280 ah LFP battery, 160 watts solar, Flash Silver, seam rust, bondo, etc., etc.
Past: 1985 Westy Camper - 1.9 wbx, 2wd, manual trans, Merian Brown, (sold after 17 years to Northwesty who converted it to a Syncro). |
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Team WorldTour
Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 2426
Location: Der Vaterland
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| Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 2:12 am Post subject: Re: The big Vanagon failures, wrecks and fires thread! |
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Better translation: "Halten Sie mein Bier, und beobachten Sie das!"
_________________
1990 Feldjäger Syncro AAZ
Click to view image
H6 Subaru Engine Swap Thread
WV2ZZZ25ZFH094138(x)/ WV2YB0257LH057308(x)/ WV2ZZZ25ZLG113270/
"Where am I going? And what am I doing in this handbasket?" -Nicodemus Jordan
When All Else Fails: Lather, Rinse, Repeat! |
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22648
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 2:14 am Post subject: Re: The big Vanagon failures, wrecks and fires thread! |
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It would have been really Darwinian if they had hit that drop tank.
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