help me build a class 11 look alike

[joemama]

So, I am thinking of building a class 11 look alike, to be used on trails, hopefully some fairly tough ones. I am starting with a very clean 71 standard, everything stock, and want to preserve the ability to go back to stock, or at least keep the stock look. Asides from the very clean car, I also have a fresh 1776 with Engle 100 cam, stock weight 8 dowel flywheel, with a heavy front pulley, can use either a 34 pict 3, or also have a Zenith 32 carb and manifold available, and 009 distributor, or stock dist if I use the 34 pict 3, thinking of using the exhaust system set up that exits thru the stock location. Being that it will have a fully enclose engine compartment, do I need to worry about a sand seal? I have a set of used aftermarket 3" lift spindles, I think Blind Chicken Racing, and wonder what I should do to the rear to match that. I want to use and maybe reinforce the stock bumpers, and make front and rear skid plates that wrap past the bumpers to protect them as well. The interior will be stock restoration. I want opinions on:
Tires - thinking of 235/75/15 Goodrich All Terrains, will they fit? on stock rims?
Tube to reinforce front beam to front firewall? what else can I, or should do?
I have dual spring plates on the back, how much do I need to notch to match front 3" lift, I assume I only need to notch the inner spring plate? how much to crank torsions? stock torsion bars?
I think I want to reinforce the trailing arms, can I do that and keep the stock shock set up? if not, can I do something without going thru the body?
I think I have seen aftermarket flanges that adapt type 2 CV to type 1 trans, is this good, or needed? What else do I need?
What shocks should I be looking at, without breaking the bank?
I do not know the condition of my trans, as the bug had a blown motor when I bought it, and it has yet to run, but if I need a new one, what can I do, that is reasonably low cost to the trans, such as gear ratios?
Is a cage a definite necessity for a car of this type? if so, which do you suggest?
Anything else I should be thinking about?
Will this car be comfortable and stable on the freeway, and as a driver?
I hope I can get some good advice/ideas, thanks.

[rubsterob]

sweet. try one notch on the rear spring plates.

are you going to use a body lift? legal class 11's are not allowed to but who cares if you arent racing it. if you do a body lift you are going to have to modify your engine tin to seal the motor. not to hard to do.

you can preload your front beam to get lift also. makes it a little ruffer ride but not to bad. you can cut and turn it 1/4 inch or throw some adjusters in.

class 11's are great. just have fun. feel free to ask me if you have any other questions.

235/75s will be tight with out a body lift but it has been done.

you can check out this place. they are more of a class legal racing website though www.class11coalition.com

there are a few guys here with 11's im sure they will help you out too.
sxuxrxf, dirtkeeper, az bug and earthquake are they few i can think of.
good luck
_________________
First car orange '72 class 11 lookalike

[dirtkeeper]

a lot depends on how much time and $ you want to throw at it.


For trail riding you dont have to do much to get a lot of fun out of it. Once you start wanting to do jumps then you get into needeing more travel and better parts

the stock tranny can take a lot if you drive it with some care which is basically avoid dropping the clutch to quickly and avoid abusing reverse gear.

type two cv's can operate at angles up to 19 degrees and stock type 1's are at about 15 degrees. So if you notch your spring plates and it makes the angle of your axles more than that the cv's will fail.

kyb gas adjust shocks are a good start for shocks and i have to say my trailing arm broke but it took awhile but there is some extra bracing you can do to the stock arms.

As far as a cage....well i have one.. mostly because i have a ragtop sun roof... but i mixed feeling as to whether its a necessity. In a major wipe out it probably will help but in a minor wipe out you may hit your head or other body part on the cage and result in injury that wouldn't have happened without it.

My lifted bug rides on the freeway fine

Have fun

[AZ-BUG]

Bunch of good questions... my 2 cents below:

Being that it will have a fully enclose engine compartment, do I need to worry about a sand seal?
- I wouldn't, unless you'll be using it in the sand alot (sounds like you won't)

I have a set of used aftermarket 3" lift spindles, I think Blind Chicken Racing, and wonder what I should do to the rear to match that.
- I re-indexed mine to the point where the spring plate is tangent to the bottom of the lower cover plate moutnig hole (ref Hibbard book). That pretty much puts it on the stock lower stops.

Tires - thinking of 235/75/15 Goodrich All Terrains, will they fit? on stock rims?
- 235's on stock rims and lift spindles will work well (that's what I run).

Tube to reinforce front beam to front firewall?
- YES. The front is inherently weak (wants to twist), any/all additional bracing will help.

I have dual spring plates on the back, how much do I need to notch to match front 3" lift, I assume I only need to notch the inner spring plate? how much to crank torsions? stock torsion bars?
- See comment above regarding re-index.

I think I want to reinforce the trailing arms, can I do that and keep the stock shock set up?
- there are tube kits which keep the stock shock mounts... do a search. You mentioned above that you are planning on extending droop travel by notching the spring plates. By doing so you will no longer be able to use the stock mounts as they were designed for a certain shock length/travel. By increasing travel you will need a longer shock, and therefore will need to relocate at least one of the mounts (usually both).

if not, can I do something without going thru the body?
- Yes, check this thread... creative solution (http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=4235792&highlight=#4235792), however on an "11" you will have issues with tire clearance, but you get the idea... be creative.

I think I have seen aftermarket flanges that adapt type 2 CV to type 1 trans, is this good, or needed? What else do I need?
- Thing flanges and stub axles will do the trick, or Porsche 944. The CVs are bigger and stronger, so it is good.

What shocks should I be looking at, without breaking the bank?
- The white KYBs will be OK in a pinch... Bilstein or Fox will definitely be a big improvement (and alot more $$$). Personally I wouldn't skimp on shocks.

I do not know the condition of my trans, as the bug had a blown motor when I bought it, and it has yet to run, but if I need a new one, what can I do, that is reasonably low cost to the trans, such as gear ratios?
- The only "low cost" option is a stock replacement. Your gear ratios won't be that bad with 235s, specially with a 1776. Don't worry about it unless you know it's blown... otherwise use it as is and save up some $$$ and get a good "built" tranny.

Is a cage a definite necessity for a car of this type? if so, which do you suggest?
- I would say yes, but you don't need to go "full race" with it. I used the EMPI 6 point and added to it... seems to be a good compromise.

Will this car be comfortable and stable on the freeway, and as a driver?
- Should be plenty stable... ride will be a little stiff assuming some suspension mods.

[joemama]

My intended use is for exploring trails in and around Big Bear, in California. This car was originally going to be a street daily driver, but as I want something for offroading, and have so much time and money invested in it, I thought I might as well use it. My other vw, is a fiberglass buggy that I already use for this purpose, but want a closed car for colder weather, as well as for friends to use when we take the buggy out. I originally wanted to put reduction gear boxes on the bug, but there are too many issues, such as the rear track being too wide, would not fit with any kind of stock fender, also the reduced top speed doesnt sound good. So I think I will use the RGB on my buggy. I do want to do more than just running fire roads, and hope this set up can do that.

[Lotrat]

I think alot of guys like to over build their cars. Nothing wrong with that, but many never get finished and that's were all the "project" cars on CL come from. I guess it's the mall-crawler mentality for VW's. I built a baja to be used as a toy car. Drive on weekends, to work every now and then, and to bounce my kids around out in the desert. 1/4" cut and turn front, re-indexed rear, big tires. That's all you need for a trail ride. Upgrade if you out grow what you have. Just my 2 cents.

The guy with the camo class11 with a swing axle rear and empi coilovers put me to shame "most" of the time.

Til we found some soft sand...

[joemama]

Many of the trails I want to explore are easy to medium Jeep trails, they do have obstacles that require some rock crawling, nothing horrendous, but still its there. So most of the bajas I see are used out in the desert, do they also work well on trails with some rocks to go over?

[rubsterob]

[pafree]

[Lotrat]

[joemama]

that video of the baja is great, the part going over a rock laden area is about what I think I need to be able to do.
Here is a fun video of my friend and I in my buggy, on a trail in Big Bear

Link


I would like the class 11 to go out with the buggy, and be able to do most of the same things, I understand that it will not do well on sand, too heavy, and not enough tire footprint.
My buggy in the sand

[rubsterob]

well did you get the beer?
_________________
First car orange '72 class 11 lookalike

[joemama]

Had to split it with my buddy.

[motorbreath53]

Lotrat-

[Lotrat]

[joemama]

So my friends sand rail has a 5.3 in it, also 24" travel front. 20 plus in the rear, and guess what, he and my other friends talk about what my fiberglass buggy did. If you can drive, you can take a basic buggy all the same places a high end rail can go, not as fast, not as comfortable, but just as much "FUN", and the smiles along the way, they are priceless.

[shred625]

If you want to build a class 11 look alike then lift the car how they do it........ its the cheapest method and is proven to work well. No need to reinvent the wheel just do a cut and turn on the front and reindex the rear.
_________________
“It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.”
~ Jack Handey

[joemama]

Wouldnt lifted spindles keep the ride same as stock, and cut and turn maybe too stiff?

[rubsterob]

lift spindles move the front wheel and brakes 3 in lower. thats all the does.
so you get a 3 in lift with out much work.
but you can buy different size spindles if you want a different amount of lift. ive seen them range between 2 and 4 inchs

just search the classifieds here youll find a bunch
_________________
First car orange '72 class 11 lookalike

[Lotrat]