Turn signal relay 65 Bug 12+ Volt system

[CaliforniaDad]

I just fixed all the wires on my 65 bug and i'm baffled on the EL-13 flasher. I have 3 pins labeled

X=
P=
L=

I figured out 12+ volt goes to (X) Turn signal switch input is (L)
but what does the (P) connect to? Also how can i get my turn signal indicator bulb on the dash to light up when I use the turn signals.
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1965 VW Bug

[glutamodo]

PXL relays are not for VWs. You need to buy a EF-35 instead. That one has the correct 49,49a and 31 terminals.

If you have to use it, connect X to +12V and your L to the turn signal switch and the dash light. Leave the P unhooked.

This is how'd you hook it up if you used a proper grounded relay - the one that VW started using in 1971-2 and used with only a cosmetic change (got smaller) up to the late 90s.

[CaliforniaDad]

Thank you, But when I hook up the dash light it stays lite and only blinks when you use the turn signals. But stays on constant if the turn signals are not in use
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1965 VW Bug

[gerg]

I used a new 2 prong style generic flasher on my '65 and it worked even ungrounded.

Then I hooked the lead from the indicator in the gage to the flasher.

All worked fine. Maybe I got lucky?
_________________
Gerg

. . . I got 99 problems and my bus ain't one . . .

'65 Sunroof Beetle
'65 Vert
'60 Singlecab

[CaliforniaDad]

hmmmmm......yeah my indicator light just stays on.
_________________
1965 VW Bug

[glutamodo]

Well, that should work... The dash light should have no pathway to ground until you move the turn signal lever away from center. Then it grounds through the turn signal bulbs (very low current there) and lights up until the flasher relay warms up and connects the lights to +12V.

X is actually a "PLUS" and L stands for Load, by the way. And there is no load until the turn switch is engaged. (P is for Pilot but that's not the kind of "backwards" wiring that the VW dash light uses)

It's that warm up phase that make me so I don't like those. With a grounded relay they light up right away outside the car as soon as you go to make a turn. With ungrounded relays the work the other way around - and they have to warrrrmmmm upppppppp before they start to flash. And during that time the only light that's lit is the one in the dashboard, not outside. I've seen some that seem to take quite a while for this to happen. So forget signalling a quick lane change. Granted, some are better than others That's what annoyed me - living in a college town with lots of traffic most of the year, and I was taught to always use my signals. Anyway, I got a REAL VW relay and have never looked back. It's not like they are uncommon, most any VW in a junkyard made from 72-98 has one like that. Later ones are shorter but work the same.


-Andy

[gerg]

OK, so that starts to make some sense because I have the warm up thing going on. Maybe 3 seconds or so?

As I was replying before, I started thinking maybe the flasher has continuity through itself until it opens? But if that is the case, then why is my indicator not always on? I have not tested mine, but what does it actually do? If there is a path through it at rest, then I would expect my indicator on the speedo to stay on until it breaks, but that does not happen.

Figured you may know Andy.

I did ground the body, and nothing improved the warm up issue.

Are you saying that one of the three prongs (on the correct style) is actually a ground for within the flasher, and that style has no warm up period?

If so, I am going to get one and wire it to work instantly. The one I had on the car (before tearing it apart) is a square, plastic type that WW sells. I really want a round, aluminum style to fit the holder and look more vintage. That's why I took a chance on a good old fashioned round, 2 prong unit.
_________________
Gerg

. . . I got 99 problems and my bus ain't one . . .

'65 Sunroof Beetle
'65 Vert
'60 Singlecab

[glutamodo]

[gerg]

Interesting - I guess I'll just use the WW unit I have on the shelf since I will have a dash cover on anyway under the hood.

I was hoping for an old style aluminum can type flasher - I'll keep googling I guess

Found this interesting info somehwere:

What do #'s like 86a mean?
Terminal # = function
15 = Switched positive output from battery
30 = Postive output direct from battery (+)**
31 = Direct to battery negative ( - ), ground
31b = Return to battery negative via switch or relay
49 = Positive input for turn signal flasher
49a = Turn signal flasher trigger power to switch (54); marking used after /5
54 = Turn signal switch contact from flasher (49a); marking used on /5
85 = Relay trigger wire, generally for negative/ground winding on electromagnet**
86 = Relay trigger wire, generally for positive winding on electromagnet**
86a = Path to ground via neutral switch with diode (prevents "NEU" from lighting via clutch switch [contact 86] )**
87 = Normally open relay output, generally**
87a = Normally closed relay output
87b = Second normally open relay output on a seperate throw
D+ = Voltage Regulator/Dynamo (Alternator) positive
C or KBL = power to turn signal indicator light in gauge cluster
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Gerg

. . . I got 99 problems and my bus ain't one . . .

'65 Sunroof Beetle
'65 Vert
'60 Singlecab

[glutamodo]

[CaliforniaDad]

Okay great information. I'm going to take a run to the local junk yard and see if I can come up with a correct style TS flasher. Thanks!!!
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1965 VW Bug

[glutamodo]

This one came out of the fuse/relay panel from a mid 90s Jetta I stripped for parts last winter... it's shorter with a different part number, but still has the same 49, 49a and 31 terminals and works the same as the older ones did.

compare this to the specs written on some older aircooled relays:

[CaliforniaDad]

Oh way cool, I'll have a lot better chance finding a mid-90's VW Jetta at the junk yard than I would a BUG. thats for sure.
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1965 VW Bug

[CaliforniaDad]

No luck yet
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1965 VW Bug

[glutamodo]

As mentioned, the XL type relay should have worked, just not the greatest.

Autozone and other chain stores sell Euro-spec relays too - look for a "35" series flasher - EP-35, EF-35 or FL35 - also FC588T.

[CaliforniaDad]

Great news, I got it working using this relay from a 93 Jetta.
Thank you for all the help.

_________________
1965 VW Bug

[gerg]

I decided to just use the square flasher I got from WW since i will have a dash cover on under the hood.

Nice work, glad it is working for ya!
_________________
Gerg

. . . I got 99 problems and my bus ain't one . . .

'65 Sunroof Beetle
'65 Vert
'60 Singlecab

[glutamodo]

[lovethatconvertible]

Gerg how is your WW flasher working out for you. I've installed one too but the but the thing I don't like is it Flashes at about 90 MPH, I wish it was a little slower. Also I'd love to stop buy and check out your Beetle one of these days. I'm in N. LV. Whoops I just remembered your off to Colorado to pick up a Convertable. Be Safe

[gerg]

Car is getting headliner now so I have not tried it.

Will let you know.
_________________
Gerg

. . . I got 99 problems and my bus ain't one . . .

'65 Sunroof Beetle
'65 Vert
'60 Singlecab