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npbusguy Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2006 Posts: 1658 Location: Budapest, Hungary
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Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:49 pm Post subject: Re: Yellow & Tan '56 Subhatch Westy - 20-147419 |
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Nice Greg. Amazing that you went through the effort to have the curtain fabric reproduced, but it will be worth it in the end. Can't wait to see a few more updates. |
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slow36hp scott wimberley
Joined: August 09, 2004 Posts: 3113 Location: mukilteo washington
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Clara Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2003 Posts: 12382
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Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 9:06 am Post subject: |
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campingbox wrote: |
I recently had the original curtain fabric remade. It is a perfect match.
Seeing the fabric finished is giving me some motivation to start working on this bus again. |
an old pic of the bus with original curtains:
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BarryL Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2004 Posts: 14216 Location: Casa de Oro, California
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Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 9:45 am Post subject: |
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campingbox wrote: |
I recently had the original curtain fabric remade. It is a perfect match. |
Never has there been such a perfect reproduction. Will you reveal where and how it was done? |
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campingbox Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2000 Posts: 10192 Location: Petaluma, CA
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Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 3:44 pm Post subject: Re: Yellow & Tan '56 Subhatch Westy - 20-147419 |
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This is the transmission that was in the bus when I bought it. For years I had thought it was the original one to the bus, but it seems to be a couple of months too new.
It does have the little round pockets to hold the transmission mounts, I think they dropped those in very early '56 and went with one big pocket.
I had completely disassembled it to have the case plated, which included removing every last stud to re-plate as well.
I started by inspecting and reassembling the shift linkage.
The 1/2 selector looks pretty good but I had a NOS one I liked better so I used it.
The 3/4 selector looked worn.
I had no spares so I picked up a NOS one on thesamba today. Hopefully it will be here next week.
The reverse selector looked perfect.
I'm also not super impressed with the reverse gear, it may be usable but it looks pitted, so I'll order a new one from WW as well.
I also need to find the pin to hold the reverse gear sleeve in place - the one I have seems super worn. It's part number 113-309-521. If someone has a NOS or minty one hit me up.
I'm not sure where to get bearings for this thing - I have the huge side ones but need the other four. Maybe these are good - I guess I'll come back to that when I pull the R&P down. |
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campingbox Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2000 Posts: 10192 Location: Petaluma, CA
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Posted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 9:34 am Post subject: Re: Yellow & Tan '56 Subhatch Westy - 20-147419 |
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Looks like I need to track down a new pinion bearing, this one looks a little rough.
Are all tranny guys this sloppy? I had this tranny rebuilt 18 years ago by a guy George Schmidt was using at the time. It was supposed to be a quality job. I know expectations were less 20 years ago, but this looks like an awful job. Im not blaming George, I don't think he ever saw inside. It hasn't seen any use since it was rebuilt. I would have been happy to buy a new bearing back then had the guy pointed out it was pitted like this. Bet they were cheap back then too.
The part number I need is 111-307-375.
This is what it looks like:
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AS350driver Samba Member
Joined: April 17, 2016 Posts: 1340 Location: Tucson
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Posted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 10:15 am Post subject: Re: Yellow & Tan '56 Subhatch Westy - 20-147419 |
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Would love to see a couple full shots of this bus with the tarp removed |
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campingbox Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2000 Posts: 10192 Location: Petaluma, CA
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Posted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:20 pm Post subject: Re: Yellow & Tan '56 Subhatch Westy - 20-147419 |
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AS350driver wrote: |
Would love to see a couple full shots of this bus with the tarp removed :) |
When I get it back on it's feet I'll push it outside and dust it off. |
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rennie Samba Member
Joined: October 06, 2016 Posts: 246 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 8:09 pm Post subject: Re: Yellow & Tan '56 Subhatch Westy - 20-147419 |
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Just read entire thread. Lucky you, what an interesting and unique bus.
Great to know you're still chipping away. Slow it may be, but you're making great, non-rushed choices. Amazing how you have sourced so many original things, too.
Hats off to you, sir! |
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otahuhu Samba Member
Joined: July 15, 2007 Posts: 561
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Posted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 8:34 pm Post subject: Re: Yellow & Tan '56 Subhatch Westy - 20-147419 |
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campingbox wrote: |
AS350driver wrote: |
Would love to see a couple full shots of this bus with the tarp removed |
When I get it back on it's feet I'll push it outside and dust it off. |
Hi Greg/Clara I was trying to find a set of period colour photos someone posted on the net a few years ago, the photos show his families Yellow and Tan westy. I remember at the time Everett had asked him if he could publish them on this site but the owner had said no. Anyway maybe someone will know the photos I'm thinking of and could post a link to them? |
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campingbox Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2000 Posts: 10192 Location: Petaluma, CA
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Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:03 am Post subject: Re: Yellow & Tan '56 Subhatch Westy - 20-147419 |
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otahuhu wrote: |
campingbox wrote: |
AS350driver wrote: |
Would love to see a couple full shots of this bus with the tarp removed :) |
When I get it back on it's feet I'll push it outside and dust it off. |
Hi Greg/Clara I was trying to find a set of period colour photos someone posted on the net a few years ago, the photos show his families Yellow and Tan westy. I remember at the time Everett had asked him if he could publish them on this site but the owner had said no. Anyway :roll: maybe someone will know the photos I'm thinking of and could post a link to them? |
I don't know if I ever saw those. Id love to see them if someone could email them to me.
I posted these in the gallery a number of years ago:
The red cushion fabric is not original - you can still see the plaid seam at the edge where it snaps to the side of the body.
I don't think this bus survived, but the rear cabinet set did and was advertised on eBay a number of years ago. It is in England now. |
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vwmike Samba Member
Joined: November 19, 2001 Posts: 156 Location: Fraser Valley, BC, Canada
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Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:48 am Post subject: Re: Yellow & Tan '56 Subhatch Westy - 20-147419 |
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Haven't been on here in awhile and was excited to see this thread up top this am!
Fabric looks amazing, can't wait to see it in the bus.
Lots of tranny builders seem to take them apart clean them and only replace the very obvious fubarred parts and leave everything else. Not many have the skill or finesse of the pics you've posted in the past of Gary building them. |
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campingbox Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2000 Posts: 10192 Location: Petaluma, CA
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Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 7:20 pm Post subject: Re: Yellow & Tan '56 Subhatch Westy - 20-147419 |
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vwmike wrote: |
Haven't been on here in awhile and was excited to see this thread up top this am!
Fabric looks amazing, can't wait to see it in the bus.
Lots of tranny builders seem to take them apart clean them and only replace the very obvious fubarred parts and leave everything else. Not many have the skill or finesse of the pics you've posted in the past of Gary building them. |
Thanks Mike!
Tranny progress continues.
Roger Nang found me these German 6210 bearings years ago:
Using a depth micrometer to confirm they are seated in the case evenly.
I used this fixture to determine the width of the case.
I had to make this bracket to hold the indicator. Basically you zero it with the fixture down and then you flip the case over and add the difference to the length of the mandrel.
Next up was the differential. This stuff looked a little roached. There was two flat backed fulcrum plates and two straight back ones - they were mismatched between the crown gears, this would explain the heavy chipping on the end. I think this damage was done when I flat towed the project 15 years ago before it was painted. You can't mix & match those.
I ended up selecting new VW Brazil crown gears, oversized fulcrum plates, and pink axles. Hopefully all this stuff can live together nicely. I measured everything with feeler gauges and think all these parts will be comfortable working together.
Sorry about the pictures rotating funny - there is absolutely nothing I can do to keep Everett's gallery from rotating pictures however it wants. |
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campingbox Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2000 Posts: 10192 Location: Petaluma, CA
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Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 7:32 pm Post subject: Re: Yellow & Tan '56 Subhatch Westy - 20-147419 |
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Differential going together. I decided to use a NOS ring & pinion that I bought from Jon Furst years and years ago.
I started test fitting the NOS mainshaft. I think this came from Jon too. I wanted to make sure the 2nd gear on the mainshaft could live with the second gear on the pinion shaft. I think some of the later mainshafts have a different angle to the 2nd gear. This one seemed fine.
There are lots of measurements to set up a ring & pinion by the book.
This is a fixture you use to zero an indicator and then add the deviation to a standard measurement.
My chart is almost full - soon I will be ready to start plugging the numbers into the formula.
I think the only thing I'm fuzzy on is what dimension to use for the 6210 bearing preload. The "test" chart in the book lists .14mm per side - I don't know if this is standard or if it's something I need to measure.
The transmission case with the new bearings measures 145.20mm and the diff with shims measured 145.18mm. I think that means there would have been absolutely no preload before with the used bearings. There is none now (-.001") with brand new bearings, so there would have been even less with used bearings. No bueno.
If anyone notices any mistakes feel free to point them out! |
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perello Samba Member
Joined: April 15, 2005 Posts: 829 Location: where social security comes for free
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Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 2:03 am Post subject: Re: Yellow & Tan '56 Subhatch Westy - 20-147419 |
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is not total 0.14?
snipped this from the German manual, you can find it in the english version
_________________ Aug '58 pressed bumper SO23
1974 German Thing
1978 Bug 1200 |
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campingbox Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2000 Posts: 10192 Location: Petaluma, CA
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Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 7:45 am Post subject: Re: Yellow & Tan '56 Subhatch Westy - 20-147419 |
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perello wrote: |
is not total 0.14?
snipped this from the German manual, you can find it in the english version
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Yes, .14mm may be the preload for both bearings together.
I think the book expects you to either know or measure this preload somehow. Maybe its a standard number that comes from the bearing manufacturer, or maybe they expect you to have mechanical skills that include knowing hot to test the preload of each bearing. I know when you set up other differentials you use an inch pound torque wrench to measure the full assembled preload, but I don't see a way to do this here and don't see a figure listed for what they expect.
V= bearing preload
My '55 bus workshop manual says
Left shim S2= J-A-(T+/-t)-G + V/2
Right shim S1=J-L+V-2 (it means S2, not the number 2)
Then it gives a few examples, and it's example uses .14mm for a value of V. |
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perello Samba Member
Joined: April 15, 2005 Posts: 829 Location: where social security comes for free
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Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:02 am Post subject: Re: Yellow & Tan '56 Subhatch Westy - 20-147419 |
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What Is Bearing Preload?
Bearing Preload is an axial or thrust load applied to a bearing that removes excess play. There are many ways to apply preload, as well as many benefits and potential problems with preload. This article will provide an overview of bearing preloading in common radial and angular contact ball bearing applications.
Why Preload?
The purpose of preload in a bearing system is to eliminate clearance that is designed into standard ball bearings. Almost all radial ball bearings are made with a clearance or space between their components to allow for free movement. This space, if not taken up by a preload can allow the rolling elements to slide rather than roll, or even allow for races to misalign.
How Much Preload?
The best preload for a system should be individually determined based on a bearings size and the system's required stiffness, starting torque, running torque, life, and loading parameters. Excessive preload can cause increased heat, fatigue, and torque. Insufficient preload can allow resonant vibration causing fretting of the raceways.
Left image:A bearing with no play, or an interference fit has all rolling elements loaded, wears and heats up excessively.
Center image:A bearing with standard play in the free state has low rigidity, and rolling elements can slide or skid instead of rotating.
Right image:A standard bearing with proper preload applied will provide system rigidity, reduced vibration, and optimal bearing life
_________________ Aug '58 pressed bumper SO23
1974 German Thing
1978 Bug 1200 |
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BarryL Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2004 Posts: 14216 Location: Casa de Oro, California
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Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:59 am Post subject: Re: Yellow & Tan '56 Subhatch Westy - 20-147419 |
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campingbox wrote: |
There was two flat backed fulcrum plates and two straight back ones - |
Could you please point out the difference? |
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campingbox Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2000 Posts: 10192 Location: Petaluma, CA
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Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 10:18 pm Post subject: Re: Yellow & Tan '56 Subhatch Westy - 20-147419 |
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BarryL wrote: |
campingbox wrote: |
There was two flat backed fulcrum plates and two straight back ones - |
Could you please point out the difference? |
If you were to flip those over and run a ground flat lengthwise along the back you would notice some are flat end to end and others have a slight curve end to end. It's kind of like a cam follower, they look flat but stick two together face to face and you'll quickly notice they are not. |
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Clara Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2003 Posts: 12382
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Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 10:20 pm Post subject: Re: Yellow & Tan '56 Subhatch Westy - 20-147419 |
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They changed the fulcrum plates IIRC soon after or before they went to the tunnel case trans.
If some one mis matches FPs on the same axle shaft it makes a horrible noise when you turn corners and chews up the plates. This happens tout suite and so is strictly verboten.
Czech the corners of the fulcrum plates in the picture. |
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