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1100ccfan
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 5:53 am    Post subject: VW38/42 Reply with quote

Hi there.

I took this picture at the end of September while being at the Prototyp museum in Hamburg.
They told me it’s the reconstructed body of the Porsche Type 64 “Berlin-Rom-Wagen”, based on the original chassis and parts of Chassis no. 38/42. A few days later I saw the car on German TV (“Die Porsche-Saga”). It should be completed in early 2011. Looking forward to it.

Cheers!

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Last edited by 1100ccfan on Mon Dec 06, 2010 8:41 am; edited 1 time in total
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allsidius
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

amazing photo! The car is fantastic at this angle. What were Porsche / VW thinking when they didn't buy the Mathé original when it was sold 10 years ago? Compared to the cost of the Auto Union D-type they had restored, the price of the only remaining type 60K10 would have been peanuts!
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tstracy39
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Must have been a pain for the driver to get in and out of it back in the day. Very cool car though, hardly a straight line on it anywhere.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why is this in the split forum, obviously it's an oval Laughing
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66brm
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Because its sex on wheels just like a split Wink
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That pic is certainly sex on wheels. So many curves...
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drscope
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LeviMan2001 wrote:
Why is this in the split forum, obviously it's an oval Laughing


Its got a split window in the FRONT!
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52HoffmanSplit
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In Ferry Porsche's autobiography he talks about driving his father in this car and how cramped the TWO of them were in it. Ferry was a slight man but Ferdinand was quite bulky after all those spicey Goulash's he loved!
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PROTOTYP
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 12:11 am    Post subject: type 60K10 no. 2 Reply with quote

to see more pictures of the car check out


http://www.prototyp-hamburg.de/new/frame.php?page=41&lang=1&id=1317

car will be finished in spring 2011. all technical parts are VW38.
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ZwitterND
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 1:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The cup holders were way ahead of their time.
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James D
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 3:57 am    Post subject: Re: VW38/42 Reply with quote

1100ccfan wrote:
...based on the original chassis and parts of Chassis no. 38/42.


Yeah, right. I believe every word. Confused
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PROTOTYP
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:28 am    Post subject: chassis numbers Reply with quote

All three type 60k10 had VW38 chassis numbers but chassis was different from stock because of another handbrake and shifting column arrangement. The porsche type number for the chassis was type 64.

the chassis numbers are

car no.1: 38/41 engine no. 38/41
car no.2: 38/42 engine no. 38/43
car no.3: 38/43 engine no. 38/46
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SplitPersonality
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 6:40 am    Post subject: Re: chassis numbers Reply with quote

PROTOTYP wrote:
All three type 60k10 had VW38 chassis numbers but chassis was different from stock because of another handbrake and shifting column arrangement. The porsche type number for the chassis was type 64.

the chassis numbers are


And - the destinies of the cars were....remind us please:

car no.1: 38/41 engine no. 38/41 - The x-Otto Mathe, now Ottokar-car?
car no.2: 38/42 engine no. 38/43 - The x-destroyed by US-soldiers in '46, then leftovers at Mathe, then PROTOTYP-car (?)
car no.3: 38/43 engine no. 38/46 - The one completely destroyed during the war-car ?
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PROTOTYP
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 8:05 am    Post subject: chassisnumbers Reply with quote

it is not that easy.

all cars were used by high members of the Porsche and Volkswagen factories. (Porsche himself, Lafferentz and Ley)

The Mathé car was repaired after the war by the porsche company in Gmünd and received then the chassis of car number one and the body of car number three, which was the most beautiful body. Porsche then used the car for promotional reasons at Innsbruck together with their first 356 roadster. The car is now here in Germany.

the body of our car number two was heavily destroyed and modified while used by american troops when they found it at Zell am See at the private Porsche estate. The body was so damaged that it wasnot repaired anymore, but the parts were kept. Porsche didn´t threw anything away at that time. Imagine the first 356 Gmünd Porsches were built from KdF prototype and T 82 and 166 parts.

all the remaining parts of car number two were sold together with the car number one to Mathé. He used them as spare parts for racing and to built some of his own race cars like the Fetzenflieger. A lot of the parts of the Fetzenflieger were T64 parts. The steering wheel for example we found in a formula three racing car from Mathé. It was a big puzzle to put it all back together. The most challenging thing was to rebuilt a completely new body for the car.

The First car (body) was completely destroyed during the war. But again they kept every part that was savable. We even have one brake backing plate from this car.
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SplitPersonality
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 8:22 am    Post subject: Re: chassisnumbers Reply with quote

PROTOTYP wrote:
[...]
The Mathé car was repaired after the war by the porsche company in Gmünd and received then the chassis of car number one and the body of car number three, which was the most beautiful body. Porsche then used the car for promotional reasons at Innsbruck together with their first 356 roadster. The car is now here in Germany.
[...]


Thanks for the explanation.

But - are you saying that the Mathe-car has changed ownership?

Check:
http://ottocars.net/Seiten/indexeins.html
...then..."cars", then "racecars", then "K64"
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PROTOTYP
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 8:47 am    Post subject: Re: chassisnumbers Reply with quote

SplitPersonality wrote:
PROTOTYP wrote:
[...]
The Mathé car was repaired after the war by the porsche company in Gmünd and received then the chassis of car number one and the body of car number three, which was the most beautiful body. Porsche then used the car for promotional reasons at Innsbruck together with their first 356 roadster. The car is now here in Germany.
[...]


Thanks for the explanation.

But - are you saying that the Mathe-car has changed ownership?

Check:
http://ottocars.net/Seiten/indexeins.html
...then..."cars", then "racecars", then "K64"




Mathé car never belonged to Ottokar Jakobs. As far as I know he was allowed to drive it at one occassion.
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allsidius
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 2:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Mathe car changed hands in the mid 90s if I recall right. I read some place that the asking price was 600.000 USD. How strange that VW or Porsche did not secure it then, the cost for building a replica must surely exceed that! Not to mention the value of a replica vs. the real thing! It's not like this is an unknown hack job, it was in the magazines and books even when I grew up in the 60s. And the Mathe car is so gorgeous and authentic, with all its dents and scratches from years of rallying. This is really one case where restoration would be sacrilege. I guess someone at VAG or Porsche is regretting spending the 600 grand on a stupid ad campaign or teambuilding now. Buy the VW Santana!! Or was it K70?

In any case, congrats to Prototyp for being able to display it here in Europe, glad it didnt stay in USA when it was there in the 80s. (Short way to Japan from California..) Im going to Hamburg some time to see it, but I don't know if the family can tolerate doing the trip in my 1303S or if they insist on the Passat.
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PROTOTYP
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 5:57 am    Post subject: More pictures Reply with quote

For eneryone who wants to see more pictures:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Our car at the early 1940s:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
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MDKG
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 6:14 am    Post subject: Re: chassisnumbers Reply with quote

PROTOTYP wrote:
it is not that easy.

....the body of our car number two was heavily destroyed and modified while used by american troops when they found it at Zell am See at the private Porsche estate. The body was so damaged that it wasnot repaired anymore, but the parts were kept.....


Great information and great pictures. Just stunning design! In the above do you mean BODY parts were kept or just general parts? And if so what parts? Thanks for sharing and definately have to see your museum sometime.
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PROTOTYP
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 6:40 am    Post subject: Body Reply with quote

Nothing of the aluminium outer skin survived. I think car was dismantled and body was thrown away. everything else was kept. This was common Porsche practice since the very early days.
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