Reproduction vs original lowlight parts

[Loren]

With the Ghia at the body shop I decided to place a few orders for new parts for my December 58 Karmann Ghia cabriolet. While I am extremely happy with some parts I am a little dissapointed with others.

First, let me thank all those people out there who have gone to the trouble and expense to reproduce parts for lowlight Ghias. I realize that the parts pool is often very small for these cars and making parts for them is often a labor of love more than a money making venture. I am not here to offend makers of these parts and if I do please forgive me.

With this being said, I would like to compare reproduction parts with original used ones. Many of my observations will perhaps be a little too detailed for some, but I would like a resource for those out there considering buying new parts vs restoring original parts for their car. Hopefully, this thread will help others determine what new parts to buy for their particular level of restoration.

[Loren]

I just received a Ghia speaker grill from Karmann Ghia Parts and Restoration (KGPR for short) and I also had a speaker grill from John Copello, that I bought a few years ago.

Here are the three speaker grills, original on the left, KGPR in the middle and John Copello's on the right.

The KGPR reproduction is excellent and is almost identical to the original grill. The spacing of the grills is perfect and the fit is excellent. The only difference, and it is cosmetic, is that the attaching studs are slightly thicker and longer than the ones on the original grill (this does not effect fit in any way).

Here is the KGPR grill installed in the dash of my 57 Ghia. Very nice!

KGPR studs vs original

This is the KGPR stamp on the back of their reproduction.

John Copellos reproduction is very good and the fit is excellent. It is slightly different from the original, especially the grill spacing. The really nice thing about John's speaker grill is that it is milled out of aluminum and will not shrink, crack or warp with age. This is a part I wish VW had actually made for our cars! I don't know if John is making these any more, as I doubt he made any money on them (if John ever calculated the small amount of money he actually makes per hour making repro parts I think he would have a heart attack!)

Here is John Copello's speaker grill installed on my 57 Ghia. Looks really good, though the spacing is noticeably different, if you know what to look for.

[Loren]

I also bought some front turnsignal terminals from KGPR to replace the corroded ones on my front turn signal bases. These are the ones made to fit 59-63 front signal bases.

On the left is an OG later style spade connector terminal, KGPR repro in the middle and a screw terminal original on the right.

The KGPR reproduction is close to the original spade terminal. Unfortunately, KGPR doesn't make ones with screw terminals (the market is too small). The brass contact parts are made from thicker brass than the original, possibly to make up for the lack of the added spring on the original. As you can see the KGPR part does not have the added springs over the brass contacts. It fits perfectly and the differences will in no way effect function. I will likely add springs and screw terminals to the KGPR reproduction part to make it more like the original terminal.

Here you can see the spring on the original terminal vs the lacking spring on the reproduction. These springs often rust away and I have a few terminals where the springs are completely gone.

[Loren]

I also bought a pair of KGPR reproduction sill plates and screws, and I must say they are excellent!

Here we have a 56-57 sill plate on top, a 58-59 sill plate in the middle and the KGPR reproduction on the bottom.

56-57 on left, 58-59 in the middle, KGPR repro on left.

The KGPR reproduction is a perfect match for the 58-59 sill plate, even the thickness of the aluminum is the same. Those of you out there with 56-57 Ghias might be a little dissapointed in the the repro since it is slightly longer and has two screws at either end. I don't konw when the change occured but 56-57 Ghia sill plates are slightly shorter than 58-59 plates and all of the screws are in a row, where as 58-59 plates have two screws at each end.

I was dissapointed in the screws KGPR provided. They seem to have a smaller head than the originals, but more dissapointing is that they are cad plated and have a phillips head while the originals were chrome plated and had a slot head.

Here is the screw from KGPR on their sill plate.

Here is an original screw on a used plate, still attached to an original 59 Ghia.

[Loren]

I bought a glove box door sticker from KGPR. It looks really nice and exactly like the original. The only difference is that the repro is a sticker and the original is a water decal. This make the repro a little thicker and gives it a sticker look while the original is very flat and almost looks like it was screened onto the glove box door.

Original glove box door from a 58 KG and the KGPR reproduction sticker on the bottom.

[Loren]

I also bought a few parts from KG Co. of Australia (KGoA for short) and Jerry really makes some exceptional parts for our early cars.

Here we have an original cat ear side badge on the top (studs on back are missing) and a KGoA reproduction on the bottom.

KGoA repro on top and original on bottom.

Here is an image of the marking on the back of the original badge.

The KGoA reproduction is extremely nice and it fits a little snug on the fender, but that will likely vary slightly from badge to badge due to the hand made nature of the part. There is nice attention to detail like the ribbing under the red enamel, though the ribs are slightly finer on the original badge. The color and chrome are flawless.

Original badge on the left, repro KGoA on the right. Notice the ribbing under the red enamel, very nice attention to detail!

[Loren]

I also bought a KG decklid script from KGoA.

An original script on top, KGoA on bottom.

An original script on top, KGoA on bottom.

The KGoA scrips are made out of brass, bent to fit the curve of the decklid and chrome plated. The fit is perfect and the script follows the curve of the decklid nicely. The finish is very nice with bright chrome. The KGoA script is slightly different from the original. The repro has thicker letters and is not quite as sharp as the original. The only way to really notice this is to place an original next to it. Since this reproduction is made from brass, not pot metal, it is much stronger than the original and will last much longer.

Notice the letters are thicker on the KGoA reproduction and the center of the A is not as sharp.

Again the letters are a little thicker.

Here is the KGoA reproduction on top of the orignal script. As you can see there is a slight difference in the two, but over all the reproduction is very close.

[Loren]

Earlier this year I bought a pair of reproduction 56-57 Ghia front turn signal bases from Koch's. I bought them here on the Samba and I haven't seen them advertised since, so I don't know if Koch's made them or if they are still available. They were very reasonably priced and I hope Koch's still has them available.

The reproductions are exceptional! The fit and finish is very nice. Dual brass screw terminals, just like the original. The base did come with phillip head screws instead of slot head screws. There is a slight difference in how the bakelite terminal is secured and no markings on the back of the repro, but these are merely cosmetic.

Original base on left, repro on right.

Original base on left, repro on right.

Close up of the screw terminals on the original base.

Close up of the repro base.

[Karmann Gheezer]

Nice thread, Loren. Thank you for the photos and taking the time to post this. Your passion shows for all of us early Ghias lovers.

These photos of comparison are great. Just to know what we're getting and what to expect is comforting. Hopefully images for comparison of ALL reproduction parts made for early Ghias will show up here (currently available and some out of reproduction parts). Examples that come to mind: Sunvisors, dash, shift ,window crank knobs, door panels, tail-lights, horn buttons. Please add to the list what's available.

R
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[pbaptist]

Hi Loren,

Thank you for all the comparisons and the deatiled pictures.
This is great information for all us Lowlight owners.

Regards
Patrick
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Dutch Karmann-Ghia and coachbuild lover.
1* Karmann Ghia Coupe (1966 Teak)
2* Karmann Ghia Convertible (1958, 1971)
4* Rometsch Lawrence (nr 534, 555, 558 and 561)

Karmann-Ghia Lowlight page and registry
Karmann-Ghia Collectibles database

[John Moxon]

Now added to the "Essential Guide" Sticky.
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John.
Judson Supercharger Information on The Samba
My 1958 Shorrock Supercharged Karmann Ghia
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[Loren]

I will be adding more parts over the next few months, when finances allow. In the interum, if any one wants to send me new parts (a full set of knobs from brezelwerks would be nice, especially in time for Christmas) I will be happy to add them to the list, I will even give you credit for donating them!

[52brezelfenster]

Great thread Loren. Thanks for posting. Lets keep this one going for all lowlight restorers out there needing parts and options.

[56cpe]

Bet you Guys have forgotten that I made the Door Glass for the Lowlight Cabrios. Only 4 sets left and that's the end of the story

Regards Jerry
KGCOA

[The aussie Trimmer]

This is an interesting topic but at the same time not a very sympathetic look at the people who have gone to great lengths to try and offer the comparatively small Low Light community an alternative to the ever diminishing original parts pool.

As one who has reproduced various parts for these cars with great expense, time and effort, I know just what goes into researching a part, collecting rare parts to copy, researching ways to reproduce these parts in small quantities to match the “possible” demand and then financing their manufacture. And when these parts hit the Karmann Ghia market a lot of owners pick on small inconsistency’s in the reproductions or complain that it takes too long to get the reproduction product made.

No one can make a copy of something and have it 100% perfect, this is just impossible. There are too many variances in the production process of mould making, consistency of the product used to cast with, or the finishing procedures. It will be close but not perfect.

And with all this in mind, I would say that any one of the people, who have gone down this reproduction parts track, paid for the parts that have been asked for just to have a great deal of these parts still left on the shelf costing them money. Because the Karmann Ghia owners don’t back the people who are willing to have had a go and they don’t understand the costs and dedication it takes to make a 1-10 production of these parts.

We as Karmann Ghia rare parts manufacturers and suppliers will never make retiring money out of you, the Karmann Ghia community, because there are just not enough cars to make it worth while. This is just a sideline to most small manufacturers, they do it to help restore rare parts for anyone who needs them, but these parts come at a cost and they will not be cheap.
If you want perfection at a bargain price, then someone will have to make each part in the ten’s of thousands and you will not get anyone silly enough to do that with the Karmann Ghia’s. So you will have to bite the bullet and settle for the parts that look almost perfect to the naked eye, not compared to an original part and be prepared to pay the premium price that goes with small parts manufacture or drive all these very clever people out of the reproduction industry forever.

And where will you be then, no more Lemke, no more KGoA and the list goes on and on.
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Cheers,
Kev.
Drive with your lights on (Be aware be seen) help others GIVE Blood

[John Moxon]

I don't think you should misunderstand what Loren is saying Kev. Any review of reproduction parts is bound to use a critical eye...without it everybody would be sold short, yourself included.

Should they be rated out of 10? No of course not but any comparison needs to itemise differences from the original but without passing a judgement on their comparative value to the restorer. The restorer themselves make the value judgement and I think you'll agree, John Lemke, John Copello, Scott Dempster and yourself have always been rated very highly.

All owners of short-run vehicles should be extremely grateful for the time, effort and skill that manufacturers like yourself put into their products and I think generally, most do.
_________________
John.
Judson Supercharger Information on The Samba
My 1958 Shorrock Supercharged Karmann Ghia
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!

[Kais Collection]

Great info, thanks for sharing!
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[EddieRay]

This is a great thread Loren! Thanks so much for the time, energy, and passion you put forth on this...love the details.
I ordered some polished oval head slotted sheet metal screws (in size 4, 3/8 length) that will replace the phillips screws that came with the door sill plates (I ordered the same as you). I will let you know how they compare to the original screws.
Eddie

[Karmann Gheezer]

I don't look at this thread as a critical license. I see it as knowledge of what to expect when you order the part. Plus it's advertising to the manufacturer who has invested time and money for us who have a crazy romance with this little car.

How do I know? 'Cause there are times I know I need therapy.
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[56cpe]

Don forget my 58 Horn badge - I left a few in Germany at the 50th and also a few went to the Big KG company in USA.
If anybody has an original, put it up against mine , I would be interested in seeing how close I got, even with using an original as a sample to produce this badge

Regards Jerry
KGCOA