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ShootingFish Samba Member
Joined: July 25, 2010 Posts: 330 Location: Portland, OR
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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 8:53 pm Post subject: Loud Zetec |
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Well... Today was the day... Picked up the Westy from North-Westy in Renton, WA after a heart transplant... Well, that an a little bypass surgery also.
Under the rear deck is a Zetec and feeding from the front are a new set of Rocky Mountain Westy stainless coolant lines. All good stuff... The engine runs well, though will take a little getting used to and on the inaugural trip back to Portland I averaged 18.5MPG, but was also getting on it pretty hard for the first 90 mile or so just to see how it all worked together and what the change in power was really like.
I pretty much drive like an old lady, but decided to see what 70 on the flats or even uphill was like, and the van did it like a champ. I am running Falken Ziex 9's @ 215R60 16 and at 4000RPM that gave me 70MPH. For the last half of the trip I rolled back to my usual speed of about 63MPH and the Zetec was turning at 3500RPM. Looking at the Bostig site I should have been doing closer to 75@4000RPM but I think that has a lot to do with tire rotations per mile, and the Falken's seem to be pretty high compared to a lot of other brands in the same size.
The only thing that I am a little bummed about is the noise... It is remarkably louder than the WBX'er and I am looking for some input on how to mitigate that. Thoughts, Suggestions, Comments?
I still have a couple of things that I need to do with it before I will consider it 'complete' and we all know that our VWs are ALWAYS a work in progress.
Photos to come soon... Today is Trains, Planes, and Automobiles... Started the day in Scottsdale, took the work hoopty to Seattle, drove the Westy to Portland, and now back on the train to Seattle so that I can fly to Wyoming tomorrow! Now where did I put that winning lotto ticket??? _________________ SF
Props aren't just for boats....
'88 2WD ALH-TDI Westy
'90 Syncro 16 Doka |
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NorCalbuggy Samba Member
Joined: March 06, 2006 Posts: 126 Location: Tracy, California
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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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Well, congratulations on your transplant...
your speed probably was just about 74 @ 70 MPH indicated with a 215/60/16
your tires do 771 revs per mile vs. stock tire 797 revs per mile
just a guess - is your noise possibly from the intake (a booming or resonance type noise) _________________ "Steam seems to have killed all gratitude in the hearts of sailors"
1987 Westfalia Vanagon - "Clifford" |
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ShootingFish Samba Member
Joined: July 25, 2010 Posts: 330 Location: Portland, OR
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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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It sounds pretty throaty...
Suggestions on what to do with the intake? _________________ SF
Props aren't just for boats....
'88 2WD ALH-TDI Westy
'90 Syncro 16 Doka |
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NorCalbuggy Samba Member
Joined: March 06, 2006 Posts: 126 Location: Tracy, California
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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not familiar with the setup you have - and I'm speculating here -
but some sort of change in size/ length of the air intake -
or a intake resonator from a donor vehicle might make a big difference _________________ "Steam seems to have killed all gratitude in the hearts of sailors"
1987 Westfalia Vanagon - "Clifford" |
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joetool Samba Member
Joined: April 14, 2007 Posts: 15 Location: Near Ned..., colorado
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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 10:17 pm Post subject: |
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There is an entire thread on the Bostig google group about noise issues. Tread lightly here, Zetec threads tend to bring out the jealous haters. I love mine, and as soon as I have the money, I will be adding the turbo... |
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bandjstewart Samba Member
Joined: June 09, 2005 Posts: 46 Location: Woodinville, WA
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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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Congratulations on the new engine!
I have had a Zetec in my van for over four years and have not had any noise issues. If the donor engine was in good shape, then my guess would be that there is some problem either with the intake or the exhaust. I have noticed a little more vibration translated to the body of the van with Bostig's most recent cradle over it's V2 design, but nothing I would describe as throaty.
I would also suggest shooting an email to Jim or Brady at Bostig or even giving them a call. They are both very helpful and do a great job at supporting their product.
Good luck.
On a separate note; I was wondering if you fly for an airline? I work at SkyWest myself.
John _________________ Friends don't let friends eat farmed salmon.
1986 Westy Weekender Syncro w/ (was Supercharged, now Turbocharged, soon to be Supercharged again) Bostig Zetec.
1977 Pinzgauer 712K.
1991 Volvo 780 Bertone
Square cars are awesome. |
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Vsyevolod Samba Member
Joined: August 07, 2009 Posts: 205 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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Noisy Bostig's can be caused by a number of issues, most of which I myself don't have a lot of understanding of. Things to look for are points where engine rattle or vibration can be transmitted into the body of the car. There has been talk on the Bostig site of changing out the tranny mounts with neoprene or some such (as opposed to the solid aluminum block). The stock Ford airbox can have the original resonator reattached though it has to be custom mounted on the front side. Some people are putting sound deadening stuff on the inside of the engine bay or under the rear seat/over the engine bay.
Basically, the cleaner and tighter the install, the less chance of having a noisy van are. I'm a first time mechanic and for some strange reason, my Bostig conversion is quieter than the original engine.
Bottom line, there IS a reason that your van is loud. And it (theoretically) can be fixed.
Stephen
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HeftySmurf Samba Member
Joined: June 15, 2008 Posts: 879 Location: Washington, USA
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Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 12:04 am Post subject: |
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Vsyevolod wrote: |
Basically, the cleaner and tighter the install, the less chance of having a noisy van are. I'm a first time mechanic and for some strange reason, my Bostig conversion is quieter than the original engine.
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It was a very clean install
Colin,
I think if you add some of that engine bay sound deadener it will cut a good amount of noise out. However, it was always pretty buzzy in mine and every other Zetec I have drove tends to be. Just a bit of trade off I guess. _________________ -Lorenzo
90 GL w/ Bostig |
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ShootingFish Samba Member
Joined: July 25, 2010 Posts: 330 Location: Portland, OR
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Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 12:21 am Post subject: |
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It is a clean install... Looks great, and drives great... just need to bring the noise level down a little...
I think that you are right about the sound deadening material in the back, and I think that it might be the impetus to pull the cabinets out and do the whole drivers side also.
It is nice to have a vehicle where I am not stuck in the slow lane or holding up everyone else on the road _________________ SF
Props aren't just for boats....
'88 2WD ALH-TDI Westy
'90 Syncro 16 Doka |
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HeftySmurf Samba Member
Joined: June 15, 2008 Posts: 879 Location: Washington, USA
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Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 12:28 am Post subject: |
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I would check and see if someone has a modified airbox with the resonator you can check out. _________________ -Lorenzo
90 GL w/ Bostig
Last edited by HeftySmurf on Tue Dec 07, 2010 4:35 am; edited 2 times in total |
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VisPacem Samba Member
Joined: July 15, 2007 Posts: 1143 Location: Las Vegas
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Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 1:14 am Post subject: Re: Loud Zetec |
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ShootingFish wrote: |
I am running Falken Ziex 9's @ 215R60 16 and at 4000RPM that gave me 70MPH. For the last half of the trip I rolled back to my usual speed of about 63MPH and the Zetec was turning at 3500RPM. Looking at the Bostig site I should have been doing closer to 75@4000RPM but I think that has a lot to do with tire rotations per mile, and the Falken's seem to be pretty high compared to a lot of other brands in the same size. |
Hi and congratulations on your transplant.
I assume the speed readings are from the speedometer. Have you checked those numbers against a reading from a GPS ? _________________ LG aka VisPacemPB, *The* party Pooper
No Regrets (Nothing to do with Vanagons) |
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jvan_wert Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2004 Posts: 42 Location: Washington
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Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 3:44 am Post subject: |
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Intake noise on the ZETEC can be a little loud. This is a picture of my install it was #13 I think. What I did to cut down on the noise was to make a cover for the box that is below the air vent and plumb my air filter in to that box, then I Dynomatted the box. This was a mock up and is kinda rough, later I got one of those ricey piece together cold air intake kits and made it look a little better. It cut down on the noise a little but what it did do was put my intake air temp down to within 10 degrees of ambiant. i'm thiniking about either the stock resonator or stock air box from a focus. My engine was a zero mile so it has nothing to do with age or condition of the engine. Picture is over four years old. Been out of the country for a while and haven't seen my van in three years. sob... I'll be reunited with my van soon.
[/img] _________________ '85 Vanagon GL, 2.0 ZETEC
'78 Baywindow
'67 Beetle
'63 Beetle
"It helps to live in a box to think outside of one." Jim Akiba |
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jvan_wert Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2004 Posts: 42 Location: Washington
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Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 6:17 am Post subject: |
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Ok, yep been a while the Bostig conversion has come a long way. Please don't beat me up too bad. I like the look of the new version's air box install. Bummer that intake noise can still be an issue. _________________ '85 Vanagon GL, 2.0 ZETEC
'78 Baywindow
'67 Beetle
'63 Beetle
"It helps to live in a box to think outside of one." Jim Akiba |
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BillM Samba Member
Joined: June 18, 2004 Posts: 1381 Location: Stonington,CT
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Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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I used the stock focus box with my Zetec install and its only load if I step on it. Then it the noise of the airbox. What do you have for an airbox on your van? I tried to find the google group for the Zetec and couldn't. Any link to it?
87 Westy
Zetec |
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thatvwbusguy Samba Member
Joined: April 18, 2007 Posts: 1712 Location: Newmarket, New Hampshire
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Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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The Bostig Core google group is located at groups.google.com/group/bostig-core/ . Like most google groups, it is a membership based site and is intended for Bostig customers. The amount of traffic on the Core site has decreased significantly since the support ticket system came online and the most recent round of documentation was released. To gain access to the site just follow the links on the page and Jim will approve you as a current Bostig customer. _________________ Jay Brown
'85 Zetec Westfalia
Newmarket, NH
If you want others to be happy, practice compassion.
If you want to be happy, practice compassion. |
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jvan_wert Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2004 Posts: 42 Location: Washington
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Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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I was one of the early installs and the conversion did not use an air box at that time just a cone filter that attached to the Mass aif flow sensor. I covered the compartmnet that was below the outside air vent and extened out the intake tube with some PVC sewage pipe. Jim offered to get me a mandral bent tube for it but I tried to local source it first. So not air box just a cover the the intake went through the the cone filter and I installed lots of dynomatt. I have a better picture somewhere I even loaded it onto the Bositg forum but that was four years ago. and I've been out off the states since about six months after I did the conversion. Jim and Brady may have been working on a more elegnt aproach to the air box but I think that I helped them a long when I showed them what I did. Even bragged a little when I told them that I had the only vanagon on the palnet that had a taillight that doudled as an air box cover. _________________ '85 Vanagon GL, 2.0 ZETEC
'78 Baywindow
'67 Beetle
'63 Beetle
"It helps to live in a box to think outside of one." Jim Akiba |
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bquigs Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2008 Posts: 116 Location: Kittery, ME
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Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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ShootingFish wrote: |
It sounds pretty throaty...
Suggestions on what to do with the intake? |
I have mine running through the stock focus airbox and up the side to the vent through the original syncro snorkel (not the cyclone though). Although i cant make a comparison since I have had it that way since day one I dont feel like my intake noise is out of hand so this may be helpful. You can set it up this way without the syncro snorkle just make sure you do it so it wont collect water. Other than that i would look into adding the resonator back on to the airbox. If you dont have the airbox I would get one and try that rather than a bare filter. _________________ -----------------
87 Syncro Zetec |
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ShootingFish Samba Member
Joined: July 25, 2010 Posts: 330 Location: Portland, OR
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Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you for all of the suggestions! As soon as I get home I will be diving into it and see what I can do to make it a bit quieter... As it is much louder than the WBXer and there is nothing worse than not being able to talk in the car.
I love the increase in power that it has made to the van, not as much as a 2.5 Subaru, but it works well for me currently, and we are very excited about it
I am looking forward to seeing and listening to some of the other Zetecs at the PDX get together on the 19th.
On a side note, I would like to thank Kirk and Mike at North-Westy for doing some great work on my van. _________________ SF
Props aren't just for boats....
'88 2WD ALH-TDI Westy
'90 Syncro 16 Doka |
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Ranger Shad Samba Member
Joined: December 21, 2009 Posts: 23 Location: Beaufort, North Carolina
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Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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Focus airbox install
When I used the stock Focus airbox I attached latches to it to make it easier to change the filter and flipped it on it side and enclosed the box with aluminum sheets. The area at the rear was closed off with a foam plug. I feel the engine noise is about the same as the waterboxer. We don't have any problem holding conversations at a normal level. Interestingly when I walk back by the air vent on the rear passenger side I am surprised at how loud it is.
This link takes you to my photo collection of my install and includes the airbox mods and installation and mounting.
http://yachtmaya.smugmug.com/Cars/Bostig-Zetec-Conversion/13563772_UrVzb#988833822_L9BpE _________________ 84 Westy Bostig Zetec "Doc"
1980 Whitby 42 Ketch "Maya"
“Not all those who wander are lost.” - J. R. R. Tolkien |
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ShootingFish Samba Member
Joined: July 25, 2010 Posts: 330 Location: Portland, OR
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Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Ranger Shad.. I am going to dive into that as soon as I get home from this work tour... I liked what you did with yours and need to get in and see what I can do.
Again, I am really happy with the performance, I just wanna bring the noise down a bit!
_________________ SF
Props aren't just for boats....
'88 2WD ALH-TDI Westy
'90 Syncro 16 Doka |
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