Anyone used Bergmann's NEW 911 system?

[sandslinger79]

Ok, I know, I know, the 911 doesn't cool, the DTM is WAY better, the 911 is ONLY for looks. Ok, now that THAT is out of the way, NO ONE should reply like the above.

My question is, has ANYONE used Bermann's NEW 911 set up? You know, with his new alternator, his new serpentine system, etc. If so, I am interested in their findings for anything between 1776-2110 systems. I want to know if his cooling effectiveness has gotten better as he claims. He says with the external cooler, temps are fantastic and they are all within 10 degrees of one another and in fact he used a small diameter because his kit was over-cooling the engine.

Please give feedback if you have used this NEW kit, not the old one. I need some actual real personal feedback.
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1973 Baja

[Glenn]

[sandslinger79]

I am referring to those size motors becuase it is close to my size and I am interested in the temps
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1973 Baja

[Ace]

It depends on which cylinder for temps.

[74 Thing]

No, I do not have any experience with his shrouds-yes, I do with his rip off engines.

Remember he is a great salesman.

I'd ask him where he got his data from and did he do R&D when making these "new" shrouds. Also ask him if there are vanes inside the shroud to direct the air where it is needed. If he cannot answer general questions like these then I would be very, very cautious.

[DarthWeber]

[sandslinger79]

He claims there is the "vanes" behind the alternator that directs air evenly over all 4 cylinders. http://bergmannvw.net/high-flow-fan-kits.html

Also: "Our new 110 amp alternator is 1" smaller in diameter and has a rear tapered body. We manufactured a new ring resulting in 22% more airflow and the inside of the smaller inner ring is also machined with a slightly different taper resulting in a wedgemated alternator-to-ring fit resulting in very tight tolerances between alternator and twelve blade fan and outer ring. (See editorial)
Notice the 4 center posts are equally spaced but shaped different from one another. The two lower ones direct the airflow to the No. 3&4 cylinder side, and the upper 2 posts to No. 1&2 cylinder side.
The factory stock Super Beetle fan is rated at 300CFM of air and the 12 blade High Flow fan at maximum 1200CFM of air."

Sounds good and Hot VW did a section on it....
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1973 Baja

[Cptn. Calzone]

Bergmann is a great salesman and piss poor customer service guy. I currently have one of his large engines and it is slated for a complete teardown. Plenty of problems and I may have 2000 miles or so on this build. I would not believe a word He says, but find out for yourself by perhaps getting your hands on one of these supposed "new" shrouds.
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71 westfalia
67 912 Porsche Quintilla
67 Single Cab aka my work horse

[Glenn]

[DarthWeber]

Not bashing you, just giving you something to think about. The stock VW fan puts out 300cfm. In a well designed cooling system that's all that's needed to cool the motor. 1200cfm just sounds like it MUST be better. More is not always better. It's VERY difficult to improve on the stock VW cooling system, many hours have been invested by many people trying to do this.

Question: are you interested in this system for it's looks - nothing wrong with that but if you are considering it for every day reliability I think you should save your money. Sorry I'm not sticking to your rules set down in your first post but it's the Samba and opinions are like......well you know. Just don't want to see you throw your money at something that won't work as well as stock parts.
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[modok]

[74 Thing]

You are falling for the marketing hype and colored ad's. Look at the shroud-there are no internal vanes to direct air to the cylinders. A good shroud cools the cylinders evenly, but without vanes you cannot do that. A lot of guys have modified and added vanes to make 911 shrouds work but that takes time and patience. Page down on the Pauter ghia and look at some of the vanes he needed to add to make his 911 shroud work properly

http://pauter.com/Ghia.htm

[sandslinger79]

Yeah, I mean who doesn't like the looks of the 911? I first considered a DTM. But I REALLY need heat during the winter ecspecialy with it being a convertible. Any idea on how to get heat? I was thinking of using a fan with the heater element out of a hair dryer, but I think there is some type of safety switch in it. Any ideas on how to get heat and I'm not too comfortable with the gas heaters...
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1973 Baja

[Sketchy_1]

I am no airflow engineer by any means, but as an A&P mechanic I understand the basics of air flow.

I would say hooey to this concept based on one important reason. The airflow axis is COMPLETELY different than an original or the DTM shroud and it doesn't seem to have sufficient guide vanes to get the air where it needs to go. It doesn't mean it is bad, just a bad design IMO for this engine. This one is based on axial flow (down the shaft) whereas the OEM fan is based on centrifugal flow (away from the shaft). Axial does produce more airflow, it is the reason why jet engines (except for some auxiliary power units) are designed that way. What matters is where the flow goes after it leaves the blades.

The OEM and DTM shrouds gracefully guide the air to its destination without the use of hard angles via the vanes that are located close to the fan. Once the air has left the blade of the fan it is guided to where it needs to go.

With the Bergman fan it MAY make more CFM than OEM, but then what happens? A portion of the air is deflected off axis in an outward direction all around in the shroud. TRUE some of the air is directed towards the cylinders but from the pic I don't see too many guides vanes. The remainder of air heads towards the back of the shroud and hits a wall then has to find a way to go. Since it is open over the cylinders, that is where it ends up, but not directed there.

Whew! Long story short I wouldn't buy it on this principle..

OEM & DTM (Velocity: Speed with direction): fan air only has to move around one axis (plus a little lateral movement to reach the outer parts of the cylinders)

Bergman (Increased speed, no real direction): It has to convert horizontal axial fan air direction to meet vertical axis cooling air requirement. The lack of guide vanes to move air directly over the cylinders would concern me.

If you are stuck on having this (axial flow) design then I would look into other engines that have used it (911's, Type 3/4's) and compare the designs to Bergmans.
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69' Karmann Ghia Convertible AWD Project (FB Build) (STF Build)

[modok]

You can't push more CFM through the same hole without increacing the pressure.
So i'd like Bernie to explain how he pushes so much more air through the cooling fins...............with a fan that makes less pressure.

[DarthWeber]

[sandslinger79]

[RockCrusher]

[DarthWeber]

Sandslinger, have you read this thread?

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=372579&highlight=fan+shroud
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[sandslinger79]