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vwwestyman
Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2004
Posts: 5688
Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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 Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:16 am Post subject: Re: CV Boot Best Brand and Supplier FAQ |
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| AlmostHeavenWV_VW wrote: |
| vwwestyman wrote: |
| Looks like the VW kit comes with a clamp, so I don't see any reason it can't just be clamped down. I know some folks don't clamp that end, but possibly it could be squeezed enough to make up the couple mm difference. |
I'm not sure that there really will be a gap at all:
| asiab3 wrote: |
'69 Bus original axle shaft: 26mm
'09 Jetta inner boot axle shaft: ~32mm
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| AlmostHeavenWV_VW wrote: |
I'm back with the "1K0498201" boot in hand.
Measurements:
ID of metal cap: 99.0-99.75mm (<1mm vs OEM VW boot)
ID of rubber small end- 26mm (+2mm vs OEM VW boot)
Overall length- 103mm ( <1mm difference vs OEM boot)
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Good point, maybe not a gap, but looseness as compared to OEM size boot. Seems like there was an intention of it being a stretch fit.
I need to replace some boots on my '73, but I've had the replacements sitting in my garage for like a year... I really shouldn't throw them out to buy new ones at this point in my budget. But once that supply is exhausted, as it inevitably will be, I will be happy to try these out.
_________________
Dave Cook
President, Wild Westerner Club
1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing |
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vwwestyman
Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2004
Posts: 5688
Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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| Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2019 11:39 am Post subject: Re: CV Boot Best Brand and Supplier FAQ |
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| vwwestyman wrote: |
I need to replace some boots on my '73, but I've had the replacements sitting in my garage for like a year... I really shouldn't throw them out to buy new ones at this point in my budget. But once that supply is exhausted, as it inevitably will be, I will be happy to try these out. |
Because of this comment, AlmostHeavenWV_VW contacted me and sent me the boot he bought. He said he didn't have any use for it other than wanting to find out the measurements, etc.
So I agreed to install this boot on one of the axles on my'73 when I finally get around to tackling that project. That way we can get some real-life side by side comparisons between the ones I bought from Bus Depot and this factory boot.
Initial first impression that surprised me is this thing feels a lot more like some kind of plastic than some kind of rubber. And the thickness of the plastic feels thinner than the rubber does.
Any input as to whether I install this on the transaxle end or wheel end of the axle shaft when I get to the project?
I'll try to do it sooner rather than later, but I've got a semester left of grad school, and my winter break is quickly filling up! I promise I'll update the thread when I actually fit the thing, and will try to update from time to time afterward.
To whoever reads this in the future, feel free to post up to "ping" me to check on it from time to time.
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Dave Cook
President, Wild Westerner Club
1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21513
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:53 pm Post subject: Re: CV Boot Best Brand and Supplier FAQ |
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| vwwestyman wrote: |
| vwwestyman wrote: |
I need to replace some boots on my '73, but I've had the replacements sitting in my garage for like a year... I really shouldn't throw them out to buy new ones at this point in my budget. But once that supply is exhausted, as it inevitably will be, I will be happy to try these out. |
Because of this comment, AlmostHeavenWV_VW contacted me and sent me the boot he bought. He said he didn't have any use for it other than wanting to find out the measurements, etc.
So I agreed to install this boot on one of the axles on my'73 when I finally get around to tackling that project. That way we can get some real-life side by side comparisons between the ones I bought from Bus Depot and this factory boot.
Initial first impression that surprised me is this thing feels a lot more like some kind of plastic than some kind of rubber. And the thickness of the plastic feels thinner than the rubber does.
Any input as to whether I install this on the transaxle end or wheel end of the axle shaft when I get to the project?
I'll try to do it sooner rather than later, but I've got a semester left of grad school, and my winter break is quickly filling up! I promise I'll update the thread when I actually fit the thing, and will try to update from time to time afterward.
To whoever reads this in the future, feel free to post up to "ping" me to check on it from time to time. |
Hey...before you install it...look carefully at the inside versus the outside. Are the insides of this boot made of a different material than the outside? 
Its possible that it IS a kind of plastic...and that may not be a bad thing...if its the right kind of plastic. OK...so I'm not going to hash through the rubber formulation issues again in this post. We know we have them.
But.....its not just CV boots that have a lot of the same issues. And....some of the manufacturers of "other" rubber parts have been using their heads trying some interesting things.
So if you look at McPherson strut boots these days....you will find that a lot of the replacement boots from FLAPS....over the past five years ...all all running the same material.
Strut boots have a lot of the same issues as CV boots. They have to work with some pretty nasty oils that come off the strut rods....on the inside of the boot.
They deal with a good amount of heat. Shocks get HOT as they operate.
They have to deal with the hideous melange of road spray...salt, oily water, grime and dirt, ozone and exhaust.
And a shock/strut is generally at least a 50k mile replacement part so its got to have some lifespan.
Short of just making these boots out the best Viton money can buy....which is hard to find good viton these days for anything we can afford......they are looking at some interesting alternatives.
There are numerous semi-rigid/semi-flexible "plastics"...that would be ideal for the outside where its primarily a weathering issue. If these semi-flexible plastics can be used in a thin enough film....they become flexible enough.
The equivalent demonstration of this....is take low density polyethylene. At 1-3 mil thickness...you have a plastic sandwich bag. Very flexible. At 8-10 mil thickness...you have a plastic milk jug that will hold its shape. At 1/2" thickness you have a plastic plank...stiff as a board.
So they are making the outside of strut boots out of a plastic material...very thin...with a rubber on the inside that works well with oils...but has lousey weathering capabilities. Actually it may be vice versa...I cant remember. Yes....I think the plastic is actually on the inside because polyethylene of any type has virtually no issues with greases or oils. I think the outer rubber is either Neoprene or chloroprene.
A version of this this same technique "could" be ideal for CV boots.
Ray |
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kreemoweet
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2008
Posts: 3898
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2019 3:55 pm Post subject: Re: CV Boot Best Brand and Supplier FAQ |
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A few years ago I replaced a complete rear axle assembly on my bus with one that apparently was designed for the Brazilian type 2.
I was astonished to find the CVJ boots seemed to be made of a rather stiff sort of plastic, rather than "rubber." I was dubious, but they
have held up fine, with not a sign of cracking or other deterioration.
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50338
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| Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2019 4:31 pm Post subject: Re: CV Boot Best Brand and Supplier FAQ |
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| kreemoweet wrote: |
A few years ago I replaced a complete rear axle assembly on my bus with one that apparently was designed for the Brazilian type 2.
I was astonished to find the CVJ boots seemed to be made of a rather stiff sort of plastic, rather than "rubber." I was dubious, but they
have held up fine, with not a sign of cracking or other deterioration. |
Maybe we should find out where the boots came from. Shouldn't be too hard of a mystery to solve. |
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kreemoweet
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2008
Posts: 3898
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2019 8:30 pm Post subject: Re: CV Boot Best Brand and Supplier FAQ |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| Maybe we should find out where the boots came from. Shouldn't be too hard of a mystery to solve. |
The axle came from Bus Depot, It seemed to be a one-off thing with them, I dunno. Maybe they would know. Thing is, the axle
had a slightly larger OD than the stock one, at least on the middle part between the boots. Haven't taken that Brazilian one apart, yet.
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'68 bug: seized by the authorities
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vwwestyman
Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2004
Posts: 5688
Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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| Posted: Wed Jan 01, 2020 11:37 am Post subject: Re: CV Boot Best Brand and Supplier FAQ |
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OK, anyone have any preference/thought/request on which end of the axle that OEM VW boot goes?
I have the day off today, and the weather is nice, so I'm going to spend some time working on the Buses.
First order of business is swapping in a thermostat in the '78 so hopefully I can coax a little more heat out of the heater. Driving it to Colorado for a training next week.
Second order will be working on the axles on the '73, since last night the flywheel and clutch on the Golf gave up the ghost, so until I decide what to do about that (and have time to even do anything!) I'll be bussing it for a while.
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Dave Cook
President, Wild Westerner Club
1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
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cmonSTART
Samba Member
Joined: July 15, 2014
Posts: 1915
Location: NH
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| Posted: Wed Jan 01, 2020 12:35 pm Post subject: Re: CV Boot Best Brand and Supplier FAQ |
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My gut feeling on that would be the wheel end as it sees more exposure to moisture, salt, grime, etc.
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'78 Bus 2.0FI
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SamboSamba22
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Joined: August 06, 2015
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Location: Benton, Arkansas
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21513
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Wed Jan 01, 2020 5:33 pm Post subject: Re: CV Boot Best Brand and Supplier FAQ |
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| cmonSTART wrote: |
| My gut feeling on that would be the wheel end as it sees more exposure to moisture, salt, grime, etc. |
Yes....but it will get more consistently hot at the trans end....and possibly be exposed to gear oil.
The salt, grime and moisture has some effect...but heat and oils I would think would be the more destructive. Ray |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50338
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| Posted: Wed Jan 01, 2020 5:56 pm Post subject: Re: CV Boot Best Brand and Supplier FAQ |
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| raygreenwood wrote: |
| cmonSTART wrote: |
| My gut feeling on that would be the wheel end as it sees more exposure to moisture, salt, grime, etc. |
Yes....but it will get more consistently hot at the trans end....and possibly be exposed to gear oil.
The salt, grime and moisture has some effect...but heat and oils I would think would be the more destructive. Ray |
I certainly have never noticed any difference into which boot fails the soonest. Usually if one gets a hole the other one will have serious cracking and not be far behind. |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21513
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Wed Jan 01, 2020 6:52 pm Post subject: Re: CV Boot Best Brand and Supplier FAQ |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| raygreenwood wrote: |
| cmonSTART wrote: |
| My gut feeling on that would be the wheel end as it sees more exposure to moisture, salt, grime, etc. |
Yes....but it will get more consistently hot at the trans end....and possibly be exposed to gear oil.
The salt, grime and moisture has some effect...but heat and oils I would think would be the more destructive. Ray |
I certainly have never noticed any difference into which boot fails the soonest. Usually if one gets a hole the other one will have serious cracking and not be far behind. |
That can depend on....WHAT....is causing the failure. Typically if they are both failing/cracking at the same time.....its probabaly a combination of temperature (either cold or hot).....ozone and gemerally just a crappy formulation.
From some of the testing I have seen over the past 2.5 years.....just as much of it can be caused by grease selection inside and oils on the outside.....with a lot of the modern crappy rubber formulations.
Ray |
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vwwestyman
Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2004
Posts: 5688
Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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| Posted: Wed Jan 01, 2020 9:12 pm Post subject: Re: CV Boot Best Brand and Supplier FAQ |
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Got it all put together tonight.
In early 2016, installed an 091 trans with fresh seals and such. I am sure I didn't put on old boots at that time, though I don't remember for sure if I ever replaced them, or perhaps they were the ones that came on the Bus and I just never changed them because they weren't cracked. They did have hex-head bolts rather than triple-square.
I had used those Nord-Lock washers as recommended by someone in the past. I was glad to see that, because otherwise I would have had to dig around to find the little baggy that I'd ordered who knows when.
So now I have 3 "new" Bus boots from Bus Depot, and the one OEM VW boot that was sent to me. (I ordered them all in fall of 2018, thinking I'd just replace all 12 boots on my old VWs in one greasy, nasty day. That didn't turn out happening; '78 got it's new boots last spring, the Thing still has decent boots.)
All 4 boots had expired--three at the axle end, one at the CV end. Luckily all the CVs looked good when cleaned up.
I did notice that the new VW boot's inner diameter was slightly loose on the shaft when installed. I was able to clamp it down no problem. I didn't clamp the other three boots.
New boot didn't come with bolts, so I had to reuse 6.
Question: I clamped the new boot between the two ridges on the axle that are intended for this purpose. However, it more naturally wants to sit just outside the further out ridge-meaning I had to stretch it a little bit to get it in between. I felt that clamping it in between the ridges assisted with getting it more sealed up. However, would stretching it a few mm to clamp potentially cause an issue that wouldn't otherwise be present? Should I loosen the clamp, let it get to it's natural resting position, and reclamp?
Old boots:
As installed:
Brand I bought from Bus Depot:
Current mileage on the odometer is 82,785.
Let the experiment begin!
_________________
Dave Cook
President, Wild Westerner Club
1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
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vwwestyman
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Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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my59
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Joined: August 13, 2003
Posts: 3791
Location: connecting the dots
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| Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:08 pm Post subject: Re: CV Boot Best Brand and Supplier FAQ |
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I am gearing up to replace the CV joint covers and repack the CV's again...
There are 4 of one size (short rubber, identical opening size on the axle) and two (with longer rubber, larger diameter axle openings) on the bench. What is the diameter for the rubber opening on the axle for a 79 bus?
I thought I had bought 4 late bus joint covers and suspect I have 4 bug covers...
or only 1 axle worth of bus covers.
Not to get political, but I am looking forward to working on the CV's, its a cleaner job than having to deal with yesterdays layoff.
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my59: Well son, my grandfather died before I got to drive it, so does that answer your question?
our79: sunroof bus w/camper interior and 2.0 FI
Other:'12 Jetta, '77 Benz 300D, and a 74 MG Midget. |
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vwwestyman
Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2004
Posts: 5688
Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:55 pm Post subject: Re: CV Boot Best Brand and Supplier FAQ |
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| my59 wrote: |
I am gearing up to replace the CV joint covers and repack the CV's again...
There are 4 of one size (short rubber, identical opening size on the axle) and two (with longer rubber, larger diameter axle openings) on the bench. What is the diameter for the rubber opening on the axle for a 79 bus?
I thought I had bought 4 late bus joint covers and suspect I have 4 bug covers...
or only 1 axle worth of bus covers.
Not to get political, but I am looking forward to working on the CV's, its a cleaner job than having to deal with yesterdays layoff. |
I don't know the measurements offhand, but I'm pretty sure they are within the last couple pages of this thread. (When AlmostHeavenWV_VW posted info about the new VW Golf/Tiguan/Etc boot.)
FWIW, the boots that I got from Bus Depot took a fair amount of stretching to get on the axle. The new VW one took less, and was slightly loose on the axle, but clamped down fine.
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Dave Cook
President, Wild Westerner Club
1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing |
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RalphWiggam
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raygreenwood
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Posts: 21513
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2020 7:53 am Post subject: Re: CV Boot Best Brand and Supplier FAQ |
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Rockfords have been the fave of the off road crowd for some time. I dont know anything about them. Comments from an off road buddy notes that they have a more rubbbery, pliable feel and are slightly thicker. No idea of part number or size. Ray
Oh.....might add....they are supposedly completely made in USA. |
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Wildthings
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Posts: 50338
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| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2020 8:47 am Post subject: Re: CV Boot Best Brand and Supplier FAQ |
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I have recently heard complaints about Rockford boots failing, maybe it has something to do with their price dropping as much as it has.
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cdennisg
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Posts: 20271
Location: Sandpoint, ID
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| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:17 am Post subject: Re: CV Boot Best Brand and Supplier FAQ |
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The last time I needed a set of boots, Rockfords were unavailable anywhere. Now that they are available, I have not needed them.
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