Author |
Message |
udidwht Samba Member
Joined: March 06, 2005 Posts: 3777 Location: Seattle, WA./ HB, Ca./ Shizuoka, Japan
|
Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2021 2:53 am Post subject: Re: CV Boot Best Brand and Supplier FAQ |
|
|
Wildthings wrote: |
raygreenwood wrote: |
Wildthings wrote: |
babysnakes wrote: |
Well my Rockfords have failed. They seem to come apart where the rubber meets the flange. I have to pull the engine on my '72 for maintenance stuff anyway. So after reading everything I could on the Tiguan boots I'm going to order a set. I don't care if they are a bit pricey, if they last they will be worth every penny. Thanks to all involved with researching a viable alternative to the available crap that's out there. |
Rockford has changed their design, obviously not for the better. |
So do you think its design...or materials...or both that have changed? |
The Rockfords used to use a clamp to hold the large end of the boot to its flange, but their recent production (or at least what is getting sold as Rockfords) crimps the metal flange to hold the boot like other brands. |
You can see the ones I purchased in my gallery (clamp held). Purchased those in mid-late 2018. Anyone have a pic of one being sold now? My old boots are in the gallery as well (Lobro). They lasted 20+ years. _________________ 1972 Westy Hardtop/Type-4 2056cc
96mm Biral AA P/C's~7.8:1CR
Headflow Masters New AMC 42x36mm heads w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
73 Web Cam w/Web solids
Dual 40mm IDF Webers - LM-2 - 47.5 idles/125 mains/190 air corr./F11 tubes/28mm Vents - Float height 10.45mm/Drop 32mm
Bosch SVDA w/Pertronix module (7.5 initial 28 total @ 3400rpm)
Bosch W8CC plugs
Pertronix Flamethrower 40K coil
S&S 4-1 w/Walker QP 17862
3 rib 002 Trans
185R14 Hankook tires |
|
Back to top |
|
|
germansupplyscott Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2004 Posts: 7089 Location: toronto
|
Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2021 7:09 am Post subject: Re: CV Boot Best Brand and Supplier FAQ |
|
|
I am curious about the report of Rockford CV boots having a failure where the boot attaches to the metal frame. We've not seen or heard of this but since we sell the Rockford product we'd obviously like to know if there is an issue.
This is a photo of the Rockford CV boot we carry. The boot is clamped to the frame, not swaged. Perhaps this is a different construction from the ones that have failed? (seems possible from the posts above). We don't use the 'standard' boot that Rockford specifies for a Bus/Vanagon, this boot is a bit longer and has one more convolution than the 'standard' one, this is something we worked though over the years by trying different parts from Rockford and finding one that seems to work really well.
_________________ SL |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ivwshane Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011 Posts: 1920 Location: Sacramento ca
|
Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2021 7:19 am Post subject: Re: CV Boot Best Brand and Supplier FAQ |
|
|
I thought the issue was the material and how it held up to the environment? _________________ 77 westy 2.0 FI
69 ghia coup 1600dp
70 single cab
Last edited by ivwshane on Mon Aug 09, 2021 12:58 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21462 Location: Oklahoma City
|
Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2021 9:17 am Post subject: Re: CV Boot Best Brand and Supplier FAQ |
|
|
From some of the tinkering I have been doing with CV boot designs......the type of clamping that Scott shows in his picture.....is the best type of joint. Especially so in the few CV joint flanges I have found that have a slight swell or smooth pressed in "bump" for the clamp to be behind.
This would be similar in function to the expanded end you find on steel fuel line sections where clamped hoses are used. Its function is to allow enough clamping force where the diameter of the clamp is smaller than the diameter of the bump.....so the hose or boot cannot slip off.......but it does so without EXCESSIVE clamping force ...which crushes the rubber.
When the rubber is excessively crushed during clamping.....it it does not outright cut the surgace of the rubber with the clamp....it eventually causes permanent rubber compaction....which causes cracking right at the clamping line.....from a combination of shrinkage, vibration and drying from age and the normal environmental attack (heat, water, chemicals etc.).
The problem I have been finding with swaged boots......is a combination of poor deburrimg of the edges of the two metal walls the boot is swaged between (they are left sharp)...which cuts into the surface of the rubber.....or over swaging.....which crushes the rubber just like over clamping. Either way it damages the surface of the rubber and creates a weak cross section.
Then....on the swaged part.....as you drive over bumps and the suspension extends.....it stretches the damaged portion of the rubber.....that ring right outside the swage joint....alternately inward across the inner ID of the swage....and outward along the outer OD of the swage. Its pure fatigue. Right at the swage line is where these boots usually crack all the way around.
To add to those last few sentences.....the damage and fatigue line......you get what is "probably".....some installer error. If whoever installs the boot......slides the small end farther inward on the CV shaft....stretching the boot out further.......as the joint goes through its range of motion.....it puts a great deal more stretch or stress on the boot....right at the swage line.
So....I personally believe that all boots should come with a length specification.....to say how far they should be expanded when installed.
This is all even in addition to the attack you get from ozone....which I am starting to find is not even remotely the main problem......and grease type/base....which is a bigger problem.....and variations in hardness/durometer and material formula....which is one of the larger problems.....that is leveraged by the other issues.
Lets put aside the chemical composition of the rubber for a second (meaning whether its a good formulation of viton or not). If just the durometer (hardness) varies on a boot.....lets say ita harder.....which means its elasticity and available elongation/stretch-ability will be lower......and you have the issues listed above......a crimped/swaged joint.....and its installed too stretched out on the shaft.....it will fail fast. Ray |
|
Back to top |
|
|
germansupplyscott Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2004 Posts: 7089 Location: toronto
|
Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2021 9:31 am Post subject: Re: CV Boot Best Brand and Supplier FAQ |
|
|
The boot Rockford specifies (or used to, I am not sure what they spec now) for a Bus was too short and after installation the small end of the boot would end up inside the ridges where it is meant to rest. We got samples of a few of the boots they make that will fit on the frame and the axle and picked a longer one. So the boot assemblies we order from them are sort of a custom part we came up with together with their tech people. They seem to work well - at least we have never heard of any failures. _________________ SL |
|
Back to top |
|
|
udidwht Samba Member
Joined: March 06, 2005 Posts: 3777 Location: Seattle, WA./ HB, Ca./ Shizuoka, Japan
|
Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2021 9:53 am Post subject: Re: CV Boot Best Brand and Supplier FAQ |
|
|
germansupplyscott wrote: |
I am curious about the report of Rockford CV boots having a failure where the boot attaches to the metal frame. We've not seen or heard of this but since we sell the Rockford product we'd obviously like to know if there is an issue.
This is a photo of the Rockford CV boot we carry. The boot is clamped to the frame, not swaged. Perhaps this is a different construction from the ones that have failed? (seems possible from the posts above). We don't use the 'standard' boot that Rockford specifies for a Bus/Vanagon, this boot is a bit longer and has one more convolution than the 'standard' one, this is something we worked though over the years by trying different parts from Rockford and finding one that seems to work really well.
|
Same Rockford boot as what I purchased from Rockford. Clamp and all.
_________________ 1972 Westy Hardtop/Type-4 2056cc
96mm Biral AA P/C's~7.8:1CR
Headflow Masters New AMC 42x36mm heads w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
73 Web Cam w/Web solids
Dual 40mm IDF Webers - LM-2 - 47.5 idles/125 mains/190 air corr./F11 tubes/28mm Vents - Float height 10.45mm/Drop 32mm
Bosch SVDA w/Pertronix module (7.5 initial 28 total @ 3400rpm)
Bosch W8CC plugs
Pertronix Flamethrower 40K coil
S&S 4-1 w/Walker QP 17862
3 rib 002 Trans
185R14 Hankook tires |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50216
|
Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2021 10:01 am Post subject: Re: CV Boot Best Brand and Supplier FAQ |
|
|
Here is a thread on the VW Tiguan boots, note that Vanagons use the same boots as a Bay so the Tiguan boots should fit both equally.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=745007
Last edited by Wildthings on Mon Aug 09, 2021 10:45 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
udidwht Samba Member
Joined: March 06, 2005 Posts: 3777 Location: Seattle, WA./ HB, Ca./ Shizuoka, Japan
|
Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2021 10:05 am Post subject: Re: CV Boot Best Brand and Supplier FAQ |
|
|
Yep....(babysnakes)
Too short (Rockford) part number on the boot doesn't even match a bus.
_________________ 1972 Westy Hardtop/Type-4 2056cc
96mm Biral AA P/C's~7.8:1CR
Headflow Masters New AMC 42x36mm heads w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
73 Web Cam w/Web solids
Dual 40mm IDF Webers - LM-2 - 47.5 idles/125 mains/190 air corr./F11 tubes/28mm Vents - Float height 10.45mm/Drop 32mm
Bosch SVDA w/Pertronix module (7.5 initial 28 total @ 3400rpm)
Bosch W8CC plugs
Pertronix Flamethrower 40K coil
S&S 4-1 w/Walker QP 17862
3 rib 002 Trans
185R14 Hankook tires |
|
Back to top |
|
|
raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21462 Location: Oklahoma City
|
Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2021 10:29 am Post subject: Re: CV Boot Best Brand and Supplier FAQ |
|
|
germansupplyscott wrote: |
The boot Rockford specifies (or used to, I am not sure what they spec now) for a Bus was too short and after installation the small end of the boot would end up inside the ridges where it is meant to rest. We got samples of a few of the boots they make that will fit on the frame and the axle and picked a longer one. So the boot assemblies we order from them are sort of a custom part we came up with together with their tech people. They seem to work well - at least we have never heard of any failures. |
Thats a good thing.
Thats basically the same type of issue. If the correct part number of boot was too short...not going to the ridges where its designed to seal....and people try to stretch it to get there.....it stresses not only the crimp joint (on a crimped boot)....but it also over stresses the peaks and valleys of the bellows.
Length of boot as well as positioning....are critical even with good material. Ray |
|
Back to top |
|
|
babysnakes Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2008 Posts: 7104
|
Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2021 12:09 pm Post subject: Re: CV Boot Best Brand and Supplier FAQ |
|
|
.
Last edited by babysnakes on Fri Oct 08, 2021 2:29 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
markd89 Samba Member
Joined: November 04, 2005 Posts: 657 Location: Los Angeles
|
Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2021 12:20 pm Post subject: Re: CV Boot Best Brand and Supplier FAQ |
|
|
That's a different boot than German Supply's Rockford. There's another pleat or two.
I ordered 4 but have yet to put them into service. _________________ 78 TDI Sunroof Bus
Los Angeles |
|
Back to top |
|
|
richparker Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2011 Posts: 6916 Location: Durango, CO
|
Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 10:29 pm Post subject: Re: CV Boot Best Brand and Supplier FAQ |
|
|
I ordered the 1K0498201 boots from FCP Euro. I was able to buy four OEM VW/Audi boots from them for $35.99/ea. They came with the clamp, C-Clip, the spacer and I bought CV grease from NAPA. I have the axles all broke down, I cleaned and rebuilt the CV joints and I painted the axles. Hoping to reassemble and install them this weekend. I will post pics of the completed axle installed.
Thanks to the person who discovered that these boots fit and thanks to all the people who have installed them and posted their results. 🙌
_________________ __________
’71 Westy build
Adventure thread
’65 Deluxe Build |
|
Back to top |
|
|
germansupplyscott Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2004 Posts: 7089 Location: toronto
|
Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 4:59 am Post subject: Re: CV Boot Best Brand and Supplier FAQ |
|
|
Those Tiguan cv boots look really good. _________________ SL |
|
Back to top |
|
|
KentABQ Samba Member
Joined: September 11, 2016 Posts: 2406 Location: Albuquerque NM
|
Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 5:25 am Post subject: Re: CV Boot Best Brand and Supplier FAQ |
|
|
richparker wrote: |
I ordered the 1K0498201 boots from FCP Euro. I was able to buy four OEM VW/Audi boots from them for $35.99/ea. |
You bought them just in time, Rich...
Those boots are listed at $47.69 now.
But if they last, they're still worth the price. _________________ -Kent-
1976 Riviera, 1.8l FI chrome yellow VAN - "Chloe"
"I must say, how can you be in a bad mood driving this vehicle full of vibrant color.
Cars of today are so bland in comparison. It's like driving a celebration!" ---WildIdea
Bus ownership via emoticons:
---williamM |
|
Back to top |
|
|
richparker Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2011 Posts: 6916 Location: Durango, CO
|
Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 3:02 pm Post subject: Re: CV Boot Best Brand and Supplier FAQ |
|
|
KentABQ wrote: |
Those boots are listed at $47.69 now.
But if they last, they're still worth the price. |
Yup, looks like the price went up. I bet I got a Xmas cyber deal.
I borrowed a crip tool from a buddy and finished up the axle rebuilt and installed them. They fit perfect and look pretty good. I will update in the future with their durability.
_________________ __________
’71 Westy build
Adventure thread
’65 Deluxe Build |
|
Back to top |
|
|
telford dorr Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2009 Posts: 3546 Location: San Diego (Encinitas)
|
Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 4:06 pm Post subject: Re: CV Boot Best Brand and Supplier FAQ |
|
|
One thing I've done with my boots is to periodically squirt and wipe them down with armor-all. Seems to keep them from getting cruddy and rough, by sealing out the oxygen and road crud. Did the same with ball joint and tie rod end boots. So far, so good. Will report future status... _________________ '71 panel, now with FI
'Experience' is the ability to recognize a mistake when you're making it again - Franklin P. Jones
In theory, theory works in practice; in practice, it doesn't - William T. Harbaugh
When you're dead, you don't know you're dead. The pain is only felt by others.
Same thing happens when you're stupid. - Philippe Geluck
More VW electrical at http://telforddorr.com/ (available 9am to 9pm PST) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
babysnakes Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2008 Posts: 7104
|
Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 6:21 pm Post subject: Re: CV Boot Best Brand and Supplier FAQ |
|
|
I bought the Tiguan boots for my Westy. They look and feel very solid. Based on the fact that I got them from the VW dealership I think they should last for years. A bit pricey, but if they last as they should on a new car, worth every penny. We shall see. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Hot Rod Ron Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2007 Posts: 13 Location: phoenix AZ
|
Posted: Mon May 16, 2022 4:26 pm Post subject: Re: CV Boot Best Brand and Supplier FAQ |
|
|
Is there anyone who can get me colored CV type 2 boots? Really need a full set of turquoise cv boots but blue or red would work too. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
udidwht Samba Member
Joined: March 06, 2005 Posts: 3777 Location: Seattle, WA./ HB, Ca./ Shizuoka, Japan
|
Posted: Mon May 16, 2022 6:06 pm Post subject: Re: CV Boot Best Brand and Supplier FAQ |
|
|
telford dorr wrote: |
One thing I've done with my boots is to periodically squirt and wipe them down with armor-all. Seems to keep them from getting cruddy and rough, by sealing out the oxygen and road crud. Did the same with ball joint and tie rod end boots. So far, so good. Will report future status... |
Use this instead. Far better.
https://www.amazon.com/303-30306-Aerospace-Protectant-Furniture/dp/B000XBCURW?th=1 _________________ 1972 Westy Hardtop/Type-4 2056cc
96mm Biral AA P/C's~7.8:1CR
Headflow Masters New AMC 42x36mm heads w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
73 Web Cam w/Web solids
Dual 40mm IDF Webers - LM-2 - 47.5 idles/125 mains/190 air corr./F11 tubes/28mm Vents - Float height 10.45mm/Drop 32mm
Bosch SVDA w/Pertronix module (7.5 initial 28 total @ 3400rpm)
Bosch W8CC plugs
Pertronix Flamethrower 40K coil
S&S 4-1 w/Walker QP 17862
3 rib 002 Trans
185R14 Hankook tires |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50216
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
|