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Just got 2 new tires......Excited! Tirebuyer.com rules!
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70coupyel
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have seen what having passenger car tires can do. My first replacment set of tires came big tire chain here in So. Calif. I mostly used those tires as driving back and forth to work on the freeways here. The belt was delaminating from the casing of the tire. Wrong load rating.

Buyer beware on playing close to the load rating.

Nokian Van C and Koni's all around last Oct. Very predictible and I feel very seccure and confident with this set up.
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TheAndante wrote:
Saying that specs are different than dimensions doesn't make sense. Porsche specs/VW specs/engineering specs are nothing but a series of dimensions,sizes,percentages,measurements, etc.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=338946&highlight=
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dhaavers
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Torton - yeah, you can replace tires in pairs if you need.
When looking at "new-to-you" tires, please consider their age: http://www.roadhaus.com/tires/tire_age.html

My "new" van had adequate but 17-year-old tires on the back...plenty of tread, but obviously plenty old.
Fronts were only 4 years old but not properly load rated. Ditched 'em all & glad I did - van rides better & I can sleep at night.

PS: I also chose the Hankooks - they're solid, properly rated tires, but NOT good in deep snow or mud.
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Ahwahnee
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RA08 are the Hankooks mentioned in some of the above posts. I'm on my second set & like 'em fine -- other opinions abound.

If the rear tires are not really old (say 10 years or so) I see no reason why you can't just go with 2 new assuming you get the same size, etc.

As I recall, prevailing wisdom is that the newer tires go on the rear.
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As Randy linked to in his first post in this thread
Quote:
and/or that the new tire’s rated load capacity is sufficient to carry the vehicle's Gross Axle Weight Ratings."

so long as the rated load of the tires on an axle meets or exceeds the Gross Axle Weight Rating the tires are properly load rated. This needs to be tempered by the DOT requirement that car tires need to be derated by 9% when used on a MPV or light truck. There is no requirement anywhere that the tire needs a certain pressure rating, this is just a fantasy someone came up with.

It seems a lot of searches for tire load ratings turn up info on VW transporters. The reason for this is that people switched from the 185R14, or 205/70R14 reinforced metric car tires or 185R14 truck tires to tires like P185/70R14 or P185/75R14 which are grossly underrated for a Transporter. A P185/75R14 only has a load rating of 88 (standard load, SL) which is way short of the minimum of 96 (SL) required for a Bay or the 97 (SL) required for a base Vanagon. This in no way means that properly sized passenger tires will not carry the axle load. I have replace way more damaged truck tires in my life than car tires, there is nothing at all magical about truck tires. They get punctured by nails and shredded by rocks just the same as passenger tires and in a few cases more easily as the stiffer sidewall don't give readily when spun against a sharp rock.
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Alan Brase
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wildthings wrote:
There is no requirement anywhere that the tire needs a certain pressure rating, this is just a fantasy someone came up with.

This in no way means that properly sized passenger tires will not carry the axle load. I have replace way more damaged truck tires in my life than car tires, there is nothing at all magical about truck tires. They get punctured by nails and shredded by rocks just the same as passenger tires and in a few cases more easily as the stiffer sidewall don't give readily when spun against a sharp rock.

Perhaps, but I've changed out a lot of tires that had broken belts. Many were properly rated tires. But both current tires I have (Agillis and Hankooks) have NEVER broken belts. It seems over the years, I had good luck with Klebers and bad luck with with Continentals and Michelin XVX.
While a tire needs no specific max pressure rating, I suspect they will not really carry rated loads at lower pressure. So, they need plenty of air to get the capacity where it needs to be.
Al
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Alan Brase
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't know if this is the right thread or if I should start another... I REALLY need to buy some snow tires, mostly for my 91. (this damn thing is sitting on thin packed snow, maybe started as 6". Absolutely won't move! These Agillis have rubber so hard, it's like glass on snow!)
What's out there these days? I saw the Nokians at Van Cafe. OUCH, are they expensive! Van Cafe are good guys, tho.
My 82 diesel has an almost new set of Hankook R008's and right now is not driving, but I don't know if they are very much better.
Al
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Projects: 67 sunroof bug, 67 Porsche 912 Targa, 70 Westy
Dec 1955 Single Cab pickup WANT 15" BUS RIMS dated 8/55, thru 12/55
To New owners: 1969 doublecab, 1971 Dormobile
Vanagons:
80 P27 Westy JUL 1979, 3rd oldest known US
83 1.6TD Vanagon, 87 Wolfie Westy daily driver, swap meet home
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Randy in Maine
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Al! Long time no see.

What size are you looking for anyway?
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Alan Brase
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Randy in Maine wrote:
Hey Al! Long time no see.

What size are you looking for anyway?

14's... 185,195, or 205/70-14's Probably NOT passenger car tires.
Al
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Dec 1955 Single Cab pickup WANT 15" BUS RIMS dated 8/55, thru 12/55
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83 1.6TD Vanagon, 87 Wolfie Westy daily driver, swap meet home
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jerrydog411
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Al,

Given what you're (apparently) looking for ... 185R14 Nokians for $98 may well be your answer.

Granted, not $50 or $60 ... but definitely a really good tire.

http://www.van-cafe.com/home/van/page_1172 "C" dedicated snow tire

http://www.van-cafe.com/home/van/page_1155 "CS" snow capable all weather tire

my 2c ...
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dhaavers
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jerrydog411 wrote:
Hi Al...Given what you're (apparently) looking for, 185R14 Nokians for $98 may well be your answer...

AWESOME price on these GREAT tires. I'd be on this if I didn't garage the van all winter...
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vanjoe
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok I been watching this post I started and I decided today to go to Big Brand tires and Goodyear today. I drove my van there and had them both look at the tires I bought to make sure they are safe. Both dealers agreed that these tires are perfectly fine and safe for the van. They also explained that tire pressures vary between brands and to go by the psi rating for that tire. They also explained that the tires don't know a difference between a passenger car and the van. The van is very comparable in weight to a mid to full size care that these tires would originally go on. They also stated that a reputable shop is not going to install tires that are unsafe. The liabilty is too great to do that he said. I have driven about 1000 miles on them so far and am very pleased with the performance. They handle great in wet conditions with all the rain we have gotten in Cali it was a good time to test them.
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70coupyel
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 11:06 pm    Post subject: Old Tire Link Reply with quote

I think this old thread need to be posted. Alot of first hand info.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=304941&highlight=passenger+tires+blow
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TheAndante wrote:
Saying that specs are different than dimensions doesn't make sense. Porsche specs/VW specs/engineering specs are nothing but a series of dimensions,sizes,percentages,measurements, etc.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=338946&highlight=
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70coupyel
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vanjoe wrote:
They also stated that a reputable shop is not going to install tires that are unsafe. The liabilty is too great to do that he said.


When tire stores relys on what the computer tells them for a uninformed Westie owner the Westie owner will be on the wrong tires. This happened to me. I know better now.

If you have not seen the RoadHaus Tire Guidelines.

http://www.roadhaus.com/tires/guideline.html
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TheAndante wrote:
Saying that specs are different than dimensions doesn't make sense. Porsche specs/VW specs/engineering specs are nothing but a series of dimensions,sizes,percentages,measurements, etc.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=338946&highlight=
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hiram6
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 5:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry VanJoe, I disagree with you on the results of your visit to the tire store. The threads here are full of people riding on incorrectly rated tires who counted on a "local tire guy" to sell them what they should have. It's up to YOU to research the requirements, and also to research the tires you are buying. Unfortunately, I would not count on the guy behind the counter and his computer database to make that call for me. You can trust a front counter employee at a tire store who has likely never seen, much less driven, a Vanagon. Or you can trust a group of passionate Vanagon owners who have considered, debated, and driven many models and brands of tires on our Vanagons.

His line about "no shop would ever sell substandard tires, it's too great a liability" is BS. Look on the back of your receipt. There's enough fine print back there to cover any liability. Ultimately, it's YOUR responsibility to buy the right product for your van.
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Ahwahnee
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vanjoe wrote:
...They also explained that the tires don't know a difference between a passenger car and the van. The van is very comparable in weight to a mid to full size care that these tires would originally go on...


This may be where they are leaping to a conclusion. Although the weight of the van may be similar to the cars that would use these tires, the high profile and short wheel base of the van may make demands on the tires that a passenger car would not present.

Like many things, it may depend on how & where you drive... mountain curves and Kansas crosswinds need (IMO) a tire with a very stiff sidewall.
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r39o
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wildthings wrote:
As Randy linked to in his first post in this thread
Quote:
and/or that the new tire’s rated load capacity is sufficient to carry the vehicle's Gross Axle Weight Ratings."

so long as the rated load of the tires on an axle meets or exceeds the Gross Axle Weight Rating the tires are properly load rated. This needs to be tempered by the DOT requirement that car tires need to be derated by 9% when used on a MPV or light truck. There is no requirement anywhere that the tire needs a certain pressure rating, this is just a fantasy someone came up with.

It seems a lot of searches for tire load ratings turn up info on VW transporters. The reason for this is that people switched from the 185R14, or 205/70R14 reinforced metric car tires or 185R14 truck tires to tires like P185/70R14 or P185/75R14 which are grossly underrated for a Transporter. A P185/75R14 only has a load rating of 88 (standard load, SL) which is way short of the minimum of 96 (SL) required for a Bay or the 97 (SL) required for a base Vanagon. This in no way means that properly sized passenger tires will not carry the axle load. I have replace way more damaged truck tires in my life than car tires, there is nothing at all magical about truck tires. They get punctured by nails and shredded by rocks just the same as passenger tires and in a few cases more easily as the stiffer sidewall don't give readily when spun against a sharp rock.

VanJoe,,

It took 3 pages BUT the above is Gospel. The tire guys do NOT understand your application. Do your research here on TheSamba not via the mouth of the tire salesman.Your tires will cause issue at a time when you need them to perfom. One of the reasons many of us have switched to bigger rims is to get less side wall to flex and a better selection of tires. The smaller sizes just do not have that great of a selection anymore.

Be informed so you can be safe.
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Home Team Van
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vanjoe- I went to 4 different local tire shops and was recommended four different sets of tires none of which met the required specs. One even wanted to put on some trailer tires. Every shop but one kept telling me I didn't know what I was talking about because I was requesting a tire that didn't have a middle number. The bottom line is that it's your decision to make and you should do whatever makes you most comfortable. After doing my research I came to the conclusion that i knew more about vanagon tires than they did so I ordered the proper tire and had it shipped to a local guy to install.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Volks,

There is an easy tire solution that will work for most of us:

Buy Nokian tires from Van Cafe.

They come in sunny and stormy weather models, and fit 14", 15" and 16" wheels.

This is a proven product from an esteemed vendor.
Supporting VW-specific vendors like Van Cafe help ensure they will be around in the future when you need them for another part. (VC has great prices on Nokians, to boot.)

There can be lots of confusing and complicated things about vans. Tires need not be one of them. Why make this harder than it has to be?

My 2 bits,
CJ
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Last edited by climberjohn on Wed Dec 29, 2010 8:41 am; edited 1 time in total
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wvukidsdoc
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Al,

As a transplanted Alaskan well known to you, go with the Nokian's, really, the only thing serious people run on 2wd vehicles up here.

Of course as a cheaper alternative, if not permanent, as worthless as Agillis are, you can put a set of chains or cable chains on them if your locale tolerates them???

John
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wasn't to impressed with Tirebuyer.com. One of the most expensive online companies. Their price for 195 BFG AT's was $137.16 and an additional $132.00 for mounting, balance and etc. That comes out to $163.57 a tire.

Tirecrawler.com price was $107.68 a tire and $15.79 per tire for shipping. That comes out to $123.47 a tire but doesn't include balancing and valve stems which runs about $20.00 per tire, in my area.

Sears kinda price matched tirecrawlers price but not a huge savings and they were a huge pain in the a$$ to deal with. I ended up going to discount tires and got them down to $141.76 a tire which beat Sears price and includes tax, balance, road hazard and valve stems. Not a huge savings but the money is staying some what local and I'm paying local taxes which helps are crappy local economy.
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