| Author |
Message |
51577
Samba Member
Joined: August 14, 2005
Posts: 737
|
 Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 12:19 pm Post subject: Factory rear anti-sway bar mounts? |
 |
|
| So I had the wheels off of my Ghia painting the fender wells and I noticed that there is a hole above the axle on each wide with a pair of threaded studs. In looking through the hole, it looks to be clear all the way through to the opposite side. Were these intended for a factory rear sway bar? If not, what should be mounted to them? Thanks. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
John Moxon 
Samba Moderator
Joined: March 07, 2004
Posts: 13955
Location: Southampton U.K.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kingkarmann
Samba Member
Joined: November 05, 2003
Posts: 4111
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 3:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Could it be you have a 67/68?
If so it is the mount for a factory camber compensator or "Z" bar
You can see an operating rod attached to the mount on the axle;
Here's a diagram of what it looks like;
You can PM me if you are looking for a replacement.
_________________
"Depression is a malfunction of the instrument we use to determine reality.”
Mike Gerson
What is your "Bespoke Reality"? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
51577
Samba Member
Joined: August 14, 2005
Posts: 737
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 3:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I have a '73, although that looks like the mount would be right. Perhaps it's just a leftover from when those Z bars were used.
Here's the picture; sorry, I'd already put my wheels back on.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kingkarmann
Samba Member
Joined: November 05, 2003
Posts: 4111
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 3:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The "Z" bar was first used on the 67 VW's with swingaxle rears to address the issue of wheel tuck and were discontinued after the 68 model year. Once IRS was introduced for 1969 the bar was no longer needed. I guess VW didn't want to spend money on a new stamping die?
_________________
"Depression is a malfunction of the instrument we use to determine reality.”
Mike Gerson
What is your "Bespoke Reality"? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
51577
Samba Member
Joined: August 14, 2005
Posts: 737
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 3:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| That would be my guess. How thick is the equalizer bar? It looks like it would be pretty simple to use the end bushings for a custom antisway bar. I've got the normal kind in, but if someone was super low it might be an option. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kingkarmann
Samba Member
Joined: November 05, 2003
Posts: 4111
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 3:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| vwdevotee wrote: |
| How thick is the equalizer bar? |
Around 15mm or so.
_________________
"Depression is a malfunction of the instrument we use to determine reality.”
Mike Gerson
What is your "Bespoke Reality"? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rcooled
Samba Member
Joined: September 20, 2008
Posts: 2506
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 5:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
[quote] It looks like it would be pretty simple to use the end bushings for a custom antisway bar. [quote]
Adding a rear anti-sway bar to a car already prone to snap oversteer is not a good idea. This will only increase the rear end's tendenancy to break loose.
_________________
'63 Ragtop (current)
'65 Ghia coupe (totaled)
'67 Ghia convertible (current)
'69.5 Ghia convertible and
'62, '63, '65, '69 Bugs (all long gone) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
70 140
Samba Member
Joined: September 22, 2002
Posts: 8471
Location: Ontario Canada
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 8:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| rcooled wrote: |
| Adding a rear anti-sway bar to a car already prone to snap oversteer is not a good idea. This will only increase the rear end's tendenancy to break loose. |
There are a lot of people that would disagree. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
51577
Samba Member
Joined: August 14, 2005
Posts: 737
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 9:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I would be one of them. I put 3/4" bars on both ends of my Ghia and I still push long before anything exciting happens. The only time I'm had the back end snap out on me was in the wet, on a sharp off-camber curve, when I gave it a little too much gas. It was a little too exciting, but I figure somthing similar would have happened in any rear wheel drive automobile. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mlhsquared
Samba Member
Joined: October 13, 2008
Posts: 1482
Location: Strasburg, VA
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 6:08 am Post subject: |
|
|
My understanding is that rear anti-sway bars work well on an IRS car but are a bad idea on swing axle cars. I will leave it to the experts to explain why, but that's what my limited research has led me to conclude.
_________________
Mike
'67 Ghia Coupe |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Altema
Samba Member
Joined: June 20, 2010
Posts: 2904
Location: Lower Michigan
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 7:38 am Post subject: |
|
|
| mlhsquared wrote: |
| My understanding is that rear anti-sway bars work well on an IRS car but are a bad idea on swing axle cars. I will leave it to the experts to explain why, but that's what my limited research has led me to conclude. |
The Z bar limits downward wheel travel to prevent tucking like mentioned. A sway bar will allow downward travel freely as long as the opposite wheel is down as well, which is what happens when a swing axle has enough tuck to lift the rear of the car. So the sway bar will reduce roll, as will the Z bar to some degree, but the sway bar does not have the same safety limiting capability. Granted, a sway bar can limit downward travel, but that is a side effect and not a primary function.
Regarding rear sways; you cannot just put a rear sway bar on a car and leave it. You can "get away" with it as long as you don't drive near the limit, but the first emergency situation may not be very forgiving.
The only exception to this rule is adding a mild rear sway bar to a car that drastically understeers. And in any situation that significantly alters a cars handling, you better be able to get somewhere where you can let it all out, lay some sideways rubber, and push the car past it's limits to verify how it handles.
If you add a rear sway bar, you also need to add front roll stiffness by adding a front sway bar or increasing the existing front bar diameter. The ideal scenario is a matched set of adjustable sway bars, then hitting a track, skid pad, or somewhere where you can nail the handling down so that it's neutral or has mild understeer. You will lose some rubber and make some noise, but it's worth it. The stock Ghia already does have mild understeer in most conditions, so making it handle flatter is a matter of adding roll stiffness to both ends to maintain balance. Adding more meat in the backend rubber department is a good idea while you are at it 
Paul |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
carlk3
Samba Member
Joined: March 10, 2009
Posts: 201
Location: Longmont, CO
|
| Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 10:42 am Post subject: Re: Factory rear anti-sway bar mounts? |
|
|
How hard would it be to retrofit a '67+ factory "equalizer" bar to a '64? Is it worth doing? Where would I get one?
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
c21darrel
Samba Member
Joined: January 22, 2009
Posts: 8211
Location: San Dimas
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
carlk3
Samba Member
Joined: March 10, 2009
Posts: 201
Location: Longmont, CO
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rbsurfguy
Samba Member
Joined: August 10, 2008
Posts: 1757
Location: Fairfax, Northern Virginia Formerly Huntington Beach, SoCal
|
| Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 4:01 pm Post subject: Re: Factory rear anti-sway bar mounts? |
|
|
| carlk3 wrote: |
| I tend to think that I don't really need to do anything, and that driving these swing axles at speed is a skill that can be learned. But I do worry about dangerous handling in unexpected situations (e.g.; deer jumps out). |
Or Kangaroos.....just ask Sputnick about that, or read through his thread!
Jeff
_________________
1971 Ghia convertible (Body off rebuild)
2019 VW Atlas 4Motion
2012 Passat-Sold
See my build on The Samba at:
Jeff's 71 Vert Restoration/Reassembly http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6...highlight= |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
