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1978 Champagne first bus
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Abscate Premium Member
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:06 am    Post subject: Re: 1978 Champagne first bus Reply with quote

Quote:
The dial indicator showed our motion from 0 to about 12 thousandths if we pried the flywheel away from the case.


Question Exclamation Question Question


Wait to hear back from some experts on that springing back to 0.003. I don't like that. I havent done a Type 4 case since 8 tracks, but I don't remember getting relaxation on any flywheel end play. Maybe a nice stiff new FRONT engine oil seal will do this.[/quote]
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Tcash
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:19 am    Post subject: Re: 1978 Champagne first bus Reply with quote

Abscate wrote:
Quote:
The dial indicator showed our motion from 0 to about 12 thousandths if we pried the flywheel away from the case.


Question Exclamation Question Question


Wait to hear back from some experts on that springing back to 0.003. I don't like that. I havent done a Type 4 case since 8 tracks, but I don't remember getting relaxation on any flywheel end play. Maybe a nice stiff new FRONT engine oil seal will do this.


Depends on how big the Screwdrivers are and how much force is applied. But the flywheel will flex.
Also used shims can get pretty beat up and are not flat. So stack them together and you have a spring.
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NAE
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secretsubmariner
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 11:05 am    Post subject: Re: 1978 Champagne first bus Reply with quote

Thanks for the info and advice, Abscate and Tcash.

I will report back with what we find when I install new shims.
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1978 Champagne Edition II (Mar)
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 6:53 am    Post subject: Re: More on endplay Reply with quote

secretsubmariner wrote:
Not a coincidence that the 4 on a keyboard is also the $ key.


YES. And thank you for my new sig Cool

Keep the updates coming!
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 9:40 am    Post subject: Re: 1978 Champagne first bus Reply with quote

If you use pry bars on the flywheel. Take your reading off the fan hub or crank snout. This way the indicated readings will not be effected by your prying.
Good luck
Tcash

If you cannot find the correct shim. GoWesty has them too.
http://www.gowesty.com/product-details.php?id=24288
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secretsubmariner
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:21 am    Post subject: Re: More on endplay Reply with quote

riverside66 wrote:
secretsubmariner wrote:
Not a coincidence that the 4 on a keyboard is also the $ key.


YES. And thank you for my new sig Cool

Keep the updates coming!


Laughing I think in my several years here that may be a first for me, thanks!


Only update for now, parts gathering.

Ordered shims from a Porsche parts supplier here in town, shims are a whopping $15.62 each. They arrived earlier than I thought and I'll pick them up today at lunch.

I also hopped on eBay and found the dodge sprinter part 5119668AA for the fuel tank restoration I need to do. Hopefully I have that buttoned up by the time I get the engine in.

My new and improved list of bullshit to handle between summer and fall semesters:
Fuel tank and stuff
CV Joint boot replacements
Throw out bearing stuff
exhaust + heater box reassembly
heat tube cleanup
heat lever cables are binding somewhere
Battery
Rebuild bigass carb I have
fuel pump + hoses
Battery
Tires
Buddy's Bits pedal upgrade
Shift extender

Yes, you read that right (if you're reading this at all)
For the break-in and beginning phases of getting it roadworthy, I'll be running a single progressive carb. I've heard a lot of opinions on this, I don't necessarily need yours, but feel free to chime in if you want after you hear me out.

For breaking in this new engine, I don't want to use the FI I've hobbled together. Too many variables right now. I want to break it in on the stand, and I'll be good to go after install.

What about Icing? Well, my friend that I'm building this thing with is running a type 4 with the rare conversion tin with a single carb with the long runners and all that. He drives the bus in every season here in Oklahoma, where I'm based. So I'll be taking his real-world experiences into account instead of have to factor in other people's elevation, weather, location, when it comes to tales of icing.

After the engine is good and I am comfortable driving it, I will continue to piece back together a perfect FI system and do the conversion when I can safely put the bus up for a little while.

Same friend who is helping me is converting his split window to Porsche disc brakes, which will require 15" rims. So I'll be purchasing his 14" General Grabbers at a nice price I think.

Basically getting it running reliably is coming first, all else after that is just gonna be rolling restoration fun times.

I'm almost done with a little ceiling surprise, but enough on that. Have a killer week jabronis
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1978 Champagne Edition II (Mar)
1978 Champagne Edition II (Feb - sold)
1978 Champagne Edition II (Jan - sold)
1978 Westfalia Auto Deluxe (sold)

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secretsubmariner
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:42 am    Post subject: Re: 1978 Champagne first bus Reply with quote

Tcash wrote:
If you use pry bars on the flywheel. Take your reading off the fan hub or crank snout. This way the indicated readings will not be effected by your prying.


Thanks for the tip. For the actual measurements we were pushing on the front end of the crank shaft and also at the center of the flywheel. Because there was no real movement that stayed, we resorted to prying gently with two big ass screwdrivers to test things out.
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1978 Champagne Edition II (Mar)
1978 Champagne Edition II (Feb - sold)
1978 Champagne Edition II (Jan - sold)
1978 Westfalia Auto Deluxe (sold)

78Kombi wrote:
dude but im a nigerian prince
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secretsubmariner
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 7:16 am    Post subject: Re: 1978 Champagne first bus Reply with quote

Shims came in from Rennsport Tulsa. Great dudes.

I ordered 2 of the smallest size available to them, like 9 thousands or .24" something like that.

Anyway, we got it from giving us weird spring back motion, to a full 10 thousands of endplay, to finally a nice and consistent 5 thousands of endplay.

So endplay is finally set, hopefully a slew of new pictures will come this weekend accompanying some exciting progress.
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1978 Champagne Edition II (Mar)
1978 Champagne Edition II (Feb - sold)
1978 Champagne Edition II (Jan - sold)
1978 Westfalia Auto Deluxe (sold)

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MorkC68
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 2:17 am    Post subject: Re: 1978 Champagne first bus Reply with quote

Brilliant thread, just read it from start to finish!

Love the Champagne buses, not many here in the U.K.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 5:20 am    Post subject: Re: 1978 Champagne first bus Reply with quote

secretsubmariner wrote:
Shims came in from Rennsport Tulsa. Great dudes.

I ordered 2 of the smallest size available to them, like 9 thousands or .24" something like that.

Anyway, we got it from giving us weird spring back motion, to a full 10 thousands of endplay, to finally a nice and consistent 5 thousands of endplay.

So endplay is finally set, hopefully a slew of new pictures will come this weekend accompanying some exciting progress.


I think you also need at least three shims as well as the in range end play ( Colin wrote on this, I think?)

I did not like that spring back report, you might guess. I'm still having trouble thinking you could deflect a flywheel 0.00X with a screwdriver, too.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 5:44 pm    Post subject: TANK SLUDGE VOL I Reply with quote

Abscate wrote:


I did not like that spring back report, you might guess. I'm still having trouble thinking you could deflect a flywheel 0.00X with a screwdriver, too.


Sorry, after using all new shims, I no longer have a spring back problem. I am using 3 brand new shims, and endplay is now within spec. Thank you for the conversation Abscate, I appreciate your concern! I'll try to get a short vid of my current endplay next time.

For tonight's episode, I'll be showing you what I did today.

First, I crawled under and removed the gas lines from my fuel injection engine. The inlet return line was plugged because I was on double carbs last time. I am going to go for a tidier approach next time on the plug.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I poked the rubber fill elbow through the body

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Lots of prying, some numb-nuts cut my tank straps in the past, so I just bent them out of the way for now. I won't downplay this for beginners, getting the Fuel Injection tank out can be a real bitch. Not impossible, but there's a little bit of work there.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Oooo, shiny OG paint! (and rat turds, and insulation, and that infamous oklahoma red dirt)

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Tank and 'S' pipe

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Close up of my OG ATV repaired fuel elbow.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


And now the carnage. The moment you've all not been waiting for, the current state of the inside of my tank.


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God that makes me wanna barf. It's been coated with something in the past, and it did not hold up well. The coating is everywhere:


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I flipped over the bigger chunks so you all can see what coating a tank improperly can do.

I'm probably gonna beat it out with a chain, do the acid soak/wash, with a quick dry and then a coat of ATF until ready for reinstallation.

There's also some exterior surface rust on the tank itself so I'm gonna convert it and prime it and top coat it with something.

That's all for now, I got the labor done, now I can clean this stuff up after work one day this week. Waiting on the new rubber pieces to come in so I can assemble. I'll also be getting back to the rebuild now that my endplay is fine. Heads, P+C's, seals, etc coming up!


Wanting to run a 2 barrel carb now I think...
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1978 Champagne Edition II (Mar)
1978 Champagne Edition II (Feb - sold)
1978 Champagne Edition II (Jan - sold)
1978 Westfalia Auto Deluxe (sold)

78Kombi wrote:
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 5:35 am    Post subject: Re: 1978 Champagne first bus Reply with quote

Dood that's funky! Shocked

Good luck in finding a filler elbow that you'll be happy with. The best that I know of currently available is the VWoB part, and even that doesn't compare with the quality of the original German one.

But at least it looks like you have a nice fuel filler tube!
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 6:13 am    Post subject: Re: 1978 Champagne first bus Reply with quote

When I installed my fill pipe with the after market elbow,I tied up the fill pipe to take the weight and movement off of the rubber elbow,I plan to make a more secure bracket to hold it before I close it up.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 6:47 am    Post subject: Re: 1978 Champagne first bus Reply with quote

Well I got hassled for choosing to slather my cracked filler pipe with a thick layer of RTV inside and out, but part of the reason was because I knew the new ones weren't as good.

A year later, no known problems.

You could get a new one and slather it to provide an extra layer of protection.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 7:20 am    Post subject: Re: 1978 Champagne first bus Reply with quote

Those are good ideas. Maybe next time I'm in there I'll add some support and some rtv. Those new fill elbows are seriously flimsy.

Nice progress on the bus secretsubmariner. Too bad about your gas tank. I feel your pain.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:50 am    Post subject: Re: 1978 Champagne first bus Reply with quote

MorkC68 wrote:
Brilliant thread, just read it from start to finish!

Love the Champagne buses, not many here in the U.K.


Thanks man! Sorry, didn't see your comment earlier when I posted.

riverside66 wrote:
Good luck in finding a filler elbow that you'll be happy with


I'm not that concerned, as I have a convenient P.O. installed door to the back side of the elbow that's accessible from the luggage area. So in a couple years when I need a new one, I'll do the swap without taking the whole assembly out again.

lil-jinx wrote:
When I installed my fill pipe with the after market elbow,I tied up the fill pipe to take the weight and movement off of the rubber elbow,I plan to make a more secure bracket to hold it before I close it up.


A good idea, I am going to replace the padding on the metal pipe, but I'm not going that extreme at this point. I may tie it up if I feel like it.

vwwestyman wrote:
You could get a new one and slather it to provide an extra layer of protection


That is not a bad idea. I may, or I may not depending on the condition of the new elbow.

rusty busty wrote:
Nice progress on the bus secretsubmariner. Too bad about your gas tank. I feel your pain.


Thanks man. She's gettin' real close now.
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1978 Champagne Edition II (Mar)
1978 Champagne Edition II (Feb - sold)
1978 Champagne Edition II (Jan - sold)
1978 Westfalia Auto Deluxe (sold)

78Kombi wrote:
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 6:25 am    Post subject: HOUSTON: WE HAVE COMPRESSION Reply with quote

I'll let the pics do the talking:


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Man, that was satisfying as shit.

Next up, exhaust studs, tins and pushrod tubes, lifters.

Rock on, dudes + dudettes!
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1978 Champagne Edition II (Mar)
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1978 Champagne Edition II (Jan - sold)
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 6:49 pm    Post subject: Re: 1978 Champagne first bus Reply with quote

Nice work man! Keep it going in that sweet champagne!
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 5:02 am    Post subject: Re: 1978 Champagne first bus Reply with quote

There's nothing more satisfying than building your motor back up! Very Happy
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 5:09 am    Post subject: Re: 1978 Champagne first bus Reply with quote

YEEEEESSSSSSS!

Nice work man!

I'm right behind you. Just got my parts back from the machine shop from balancing yesterday.
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