Easiest to Fit 15" Wheels?

[randywebb]

After two runs thru the Wheels thread I still cannot figure out what wheels will fit a 2wd drive Vanagon with minimal need for drilling, spacers, ball-headed lug nuts, new longer studs or whatever
AND
still fit into the front spare tire carrier with a reasonable sized tire on it?

Does such a creature even exist?

If not, what wheels come closest?

& which are likely to be found for 'cheap' on the used market?

[dobryan]

[ThorAlex]

MB steel wheels with ET 37 will fit with only new nuts and bolts. I've not tested, but with 195/65 tires i think they would fit the spare tire carrier.
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1990 syncro 1.6TD "Smily"

Ex-vans:
1990 Caravelle coach 1.6TD
1986 Transporter Double cab syncro 2.1 112hp

"I'm wrong so often... It's great!" - Adam Savage

[JED THE SPREAD]

Hope this helps,

http://www.brick-yard.co.uk/forum/definitive-what-wheels-fit-thread_topic1290.html

jed
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[buildyourown]

You can't have your cake and eat it too.
The reason certain wheels are cheap, is that they require some homework and physical work to get fit.
Plug and play wheels cost money. The best turnkey value is going to be GW or similar wheels.
If you can live with steel, you can by mercedes spares but they are still about $90-100ea.

Scour ebay for any MBZ wheel with the right ET, perferrably with 14mm bolt holes.

The whole spacer/stud/bolt thing really isn't that hard.

[randywebb]

wheels are cheap b/c they are either poorly made

or are well made, but are common -- usually for a common car

this is ind. of their ability to fit a Vanagon.

from the silence and vague response, I am getting the impression that there is no wheel that is strong, light, and easily fits.

[insyncro]

There are many 15s available for a van.
The ones you think you are gtting a "deal" on will require machining and or spacers/longer studs to mount.
This will outset any of the "deal" when you look at the numbers.
The biggest issue with 15s is whether or not you will be upgrading the brakes as well.
Many of the kits for big fronts will rub or worse with many of the available rims.
I would estimate $100 a rim for used steel or alloy needing machining.
Brand new alloys start around $150 each and will bolt on.
These #'s do not include tires.

16s work much better IMHO.
Most Mercedes Benz alloys are 5x112 and have an offset around ET30 which is a good starting point.
They also have a large enough center bore to clear the dust cap on 2wd and hub on a Syncro.
In the 16 in Benz wheels a set of alloys from a 1999 CLK would be the easiest to mount. All you need to do is enlarge the stud holes from 12mm to 14mm and buy a set of proper lugs from Loggy.
Bolt them on and go.
This is a favorite of most looking for a great looking rim and ease of mounting.
They look sweet too.

dylan

[Famous 01]

[Famous 01]

[levi]

[kevtherev]

[oorwullie]

[randywebb]

thx for the tip re the 1999 CLK - 2 issues tho:

I worry about 16" wheels b/c the tire is then proportionately "thinner" - that means there is less of a tire cushion to soak up nasty bumps, rocks rolled over, etc. I drive on some very bad roads ("off-road") so that could be a problem.

Then there is the issue of trying to mount a spare and drive a few hundred miles - possibly on very bad terrain - to get to a tire store. I live in Oregon, so you can't just run down to a Sam's Club like in NC. Gas stations can be 200 miles apart in E. Oregon.


At any rate, I finally went and bought a "set" of 4 MB wheels, said to be from a W124 car. They are pretty rough looking, so maybe you guys can walk me thru some mods & restoration by this spring.

Interestingly, they don't all match - when I got them home I found that 3 of them say:
6.5J15H2
49
on the inside.

One other looks just a little different and has a different number set on it. The ovals along the rim are more squared off and the area near the rim is not as flat - part of it is recessed.

Also, the numbers inside the wheel read:
6.5J15H2 48

i.e. they are all in a single line, not on two lines as in the other 3 wheels; AND I swear it says the ET is 48, not 49.

Any problems? I only paid $80 for the 4 wheels so it is not too terrible if they don't work for my 1986 2wd Westy.

But I don't want to drill them and powder coat them if they are not the thing to have.

[Zeitgeist 13]

I have 16" SLK rims and they have plenty of tire-meat for the terrain I frequent.

If your 124 rims are the typical 15 hole versions, they're all ET49
_________________
Casey--

'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik?

[Christopher Schimke]

[Christopher Schimke]

On the subject of "having your cake and eating it too", it's all about the balance and what you are comfortable with.

Some people are fine with the current styles of direct bolt-on wheels that are available and are willing to pay the money for them. Others don't like the looks of them or are not willing to pay the price for them, so they choose to go the route of finding an alternative.

Most of the alternatives have been spelled out reasonably clearly in the past, but even so, there is a comfort level that everyone has to deal with concerning the use of spacers or adapters, machining the centerbores of the wheels, drilling the lug holes, installing longer wheel studs, how much money to spend on the whole package, which tires are right for them and their situation, overall appearance issues, big brake clearance issues, center cap fitment issues, clearance for chains on the rear, sliding door clearance, tire to fender clearance, etc. And the list goes on and on.

The point is that there are so many variables, that it is very hard for one person to say what the best situation might be. Low cost and ease of installation can be very difficult to achieve. There is usually a decent compromise that can be achieved, but at the cost of at least one of many desires.
_________________
"Sometimes you have to build a box to think outside of." - Bruce (not Springsteen)

*Custom wheel hardware for Audi/VW, Porsche and Mercedes wheels - Urethane Suspension Bushings*
T3Technique.com or contact me at [email protected]

[Zeitgeist 13]

I wonder if the 48mm offset rim has a 124 part #. I've never heard of that offset for those rims as used in 124 series chassis.
_________________
Casey--

'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik?

[Christopher Schimke]

[randywebb]

Thanks, Chris.

I'll put the 124 oddball one on the rear.
[1] - I understand the 2 small 'keeper' machine screws on the R drums need to be removed.
I'll be ordering some things for the wheel fitment from you, but despite many hours on the search engine, am not clear on exactly what these wheels need to work on my '86 2wd Westy.

apparently:
[2] - no adapters as the bolt circle is identical to VW's
[3] - no machining the centerbores of these MB wheels needed as they clear the dust caps, etc.

[4] - drilling the lug holes ---> is the VW hub centric? one post says it is not hard to drill these out (or do these MB wheels need that?); so, if it is easy, that implies to me that they are not lug centric...
I can set a Portalign drill holder on these or figure some other way if hand-holding the drill is verboten

[5] - installing longer wheel studs ---> how long? the Porsche ones? is the thread 12 or 14? and 1.5 pitch?

[6] - I am new to Vanagons and not sure if I will need big brakes, so not clear on the clearance issues for them. I get the impression that there are several choices of rotors and calipers.

[7] - center cap fitment issues should be a minor, cosmetic issue - I guess the MB center caps can stay, but can cross that bridge later on...

[8] - clearance for chains on the rear should not be an issue as I have a Subaru Outback for a winter car*

[9] - I sure hope sliding door clearance is not an issue!

[10] - a spare tire that does not inhibit liftgate access -- from what I see posted, I guess I'll have to carry extra lug nuts and.or bolts so I can use the stock 14" steel wheel/tire combo that is mounted in the spare tire carrier.

----------------------------------------------------------
A matrix that could be filled in with issues for some common wheel types would be helpful for many. I started one in an Excel spreadsheet & if anyone wants it, Email me at iwp4 -at= comcast dot net to get it.

In general, I am not too concerned with looks. My primary goals are to obtain a wheel allowing for a good range of tire fitments, and I want the lightest & strongest wheel I can afford.

I find this topic pretty complicated. I expect many others will find that too, since I "have been messin' with cars" for a few decades; used ot own and hotrodded a Bay window back in the 1970s, and am rebuilding and hotrodding a Porsche 911*. Of course, that means my time, effort and $$ stores are deployed towards the Pooschey, with little left over for the Westy.

Thanks for your help!


* yes, I have 3 old cars and all 3 of them have boxer motors...

[Christopher Schimke]

You are very accurate in your assessment about this whole wheel fitting thing being complicated. Not all fitments are, but some can be brutally painful. It just depends.

For your application, you have two basic options with which to install the wheels in question onto your van.

1.
15mm slip-on spacers
80mm long conversion studs for the front
14x1.5x80mm rear wheel studs (Porsche spec)
Small ball seat lug nuts (enough to cover both front and rear)

With the above option, you will notice that there are no lug bolts included in the list. Due to the fact that the particular wheel that you have is very thick through the lug hole area, there are not any lug bolts long enough to get the proper amount of thread engagement. The solution is to install a set of conversion studs on the front and use lug nuts on all four corners. The conversion studs are very easy to install and the installation can be done with the hubs/rotors on the car.

This option will give you a 34mm offset which will work just fine for tires 215 and narrower.

2.
15-19mm bolt-on spacers (like and adapter except with the same bolt patterns)
Small ball seat lug nuts (enough to cover both front and rear)

This option is more expensive than the above option, but it also gives you the freedom to decrease the offset to 30mm which would allow you to run wider tires if you choose. This option also lets you keep the stock rear wheel studs and you do not have to install conversion studs on the front.



With either of the above options, you will have to remove the bolts on the rear drums (two per side). If you purchase your parts from me, they will come with instructions that will explain everything necessary to get the parts installed. The center caps on your wheels will not be a problem nor will any sliding door clearance issues.

Lugcentric means that the wheels are centered via the lug seats, not the lug holes. Therefore, drilling the lug holes to a larger diameter is not a super critical operation. It is still important to drill the holes fairly straight, but the precision of a mill is not necessary. Your drill holder will be more than adequate. The holes can even be done by hand with no fixture if you are careful.

For your spare tire, provide you have a stock Vanagon steel wheel and a tire of equal diameter to those that are mounted on the Mercedes wheels installed on it, you could run the stock steel spare over the top of either of the above options using the stock steel wheel lug nuts. Yes, the offset would end up being different from the rest of the wheels, but you would be able to drive that way for long periods of time with no complications as long as you were aware that you would need to replace the original tire as soon as possible.


As for the matrix/chart, you can see how complicated the scenario above is. Now imagine trying to incorporate that same number of complications into a matrix, but the complications would end up being different for nearly each and every wheel. I'm not saying it is impossible to create a decent chart that might help point people in the right direction, but to be honest, I don't have the time to do it, but I am always willing to help people figure this all out via PM or email, whether they end up buying parts from me or not.



One thing that occurred to me as I was writing this. You should check the thickness of the wheel though the lug hole from the base/bottom of the lug seat down to the wheel/hub mounting face to see that the oddball wheel is the same, or similar, thickness to the rest of the wheels. The thickness should be very close, but one thing that I have learned with Mercedes wheels is not to assume anything. There are many, many different thicknesses when it comes to Mercedes wheels.
_________________
"Sometimes you have to build a box to think outside of." - Bruce (not Springsteen)

*Custom wheel hardware for Audi/VW, Porsche and Mercedes wheels - Urethane Suspension Bushings*
T3Technique.com or contact me at [email protected]