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muffildy
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 5:01 pm    Post subject: edison 2 Reply with quote

So anyone got any ideas on just how their proprietary suspension works?

I was thinking of using this style of body for the sand rail i was planning to build; just got to figure out how they fit the suspension inside that wheel case so easily.

I was thinking it might be a miniaturized version of the coil spring type 1
http://www.carbibles.com/suspension_bible.html
In order to give it more bounce they may have combined this with an old school dependent suspension held by leaf springs.

I get the feeling that the go card they drive around in the video is not in fact the same as the actual edison 2 because it doesnt appear to have a suspension at all, but hard to tell since they dont give good close ups.

btw, anyone have thoughts on making the kobuta d902 into a turbo? should give it 30 hp or so which would i think make it a great engine for the sand rail.

Oh, also - if im using a standard vw bus tranny, i wanted to have the wheels on the rear closer together kind of like http://www.evalbum.com/3242
Would this work out or do i have to have the longer axles between the trans and wheels?
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BL3Manx
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What are you planning to build?

You didn't post any link to the go kart video you mentioned. Are you interested in a sand rail or a street buggy? There's another forum for sandrails.

This buggy is using an A-arm suspension

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=440534

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewforum.php?f=9

Are you planning on mounting a Kubota engine on a VW transaxle? Is there an adapter for that?

If you're thinking about an engine with less than 100hp, why do you want to use a bus transaxle(091?) instead of a type 1 transaxle? Are you talking about the split window bus type transaxle (which was a Type 1 transxale with reduction gearboxes on the axles)? Why?
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muffildy
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 4:41 pm    Post subject: still in design phase Reply with quote

heres a link to the videos
http://www.edison2.com/video/

Basically, i want the cheapest lightest weight 4 speed or more transmission, and so far thats left me with vw 4 speed trans at 650$ and 70#. The d902 engine would need an adaptor to connect to it of course - i would expect i would need one regardless of what trans i pick since this engine is not typically used for cars as im aware. Other option is to use a motorcycle transmission and do a single wheel in the back, but ive not done much research into bike trans yet to know weights and stuff.

I want to make a sand rail chasis, and put a fiberglass body onto it in order to create a street buggy that would be a little safer and maybe lighter than the buggys designed after the manx buggy style.

An example of this is the edison 2, though my brother says i should probably not do the wheels like that after all - if i get clipped by anyone he says it will destroy the suspension easily and be difficult to avoid an accident from something that would just be minor damage to a normally situated tire.

I was thinking of using a double wishbone suspension somewhat like the link you posted, i need to find vendors of the cheapest parts though still - its hard to find since a lot of the websites ive gone to so far just have springs and shocks etc, but not the actual wishbone etc.

The overall goal is to make a 1000# or less street legal vehicle able to go atleast 65 mph, capable of surviving a minor crash, and has a mpg of 50 or better.
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BL3Manx
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What state do you live in? If its California and you're planning on building a street legal car, you're not going to get it registered unless the engine came out of a pre-76 car and you have a certificate of sequence.

If you live in a more reasonable state, why not just buy an old formula Vee race car then put in a more efficient engine which Kennedy makes an engine for, maybe a diesel Rabbit engine. I am really pretty sure they don't make an adapter that will mate a Kubota engine and a VW transaxle.

http://www.kennedyeng.com/vw_por.htm

This is my high mileage 3-wheeler project. It has a $150 Miata front suspension. and a $150 Geo Metro 3 cylinder which I want to convert to CNG. I hope to drive its single rear wheel through a hydrostatic transmission. My goal is at least 80 mph(normal freeway speeds) with over 50 mpg on a clean domestically produced fuel.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


http://www.hydraulicinnovations.com/
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didget69
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OP is getting the Kubota D902 info from the RQ Riley site; specifically, from the XR3 that Riley's company built.

The XR3 specs out a Kubota diesel mated to a VW transaxle...

Custom adaptor...

bnc
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BL3Manx
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like the Kubota adapter would be the key piece and most
difficult piece to source so it ought to be obtained before any money is invested on other parts.

If he really wants a diesel I'd still go VW Rabbit. Even so I have no doubt he could get 50 mpg in a Formula Vee with a 1200cc 36hp or 40hp VW bug engine and regular gas is cheaper than diesel.

There are also VW bellhousings to put the diesel engine right on the Vanagon transaxle

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=550004

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=913979
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muffildy
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 2:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I live in florida, i havent actually gone to the dmv yet to ask the specific requirements. But a few websites have stated that i would just need to give it basic things that normal road cars have like lights, seat belts etc.

and yes, i was thinking of the xr3 from the riley site with regards to using a d902 - the difference is he doesnt seem to have turbo his d902 or atleast i dont think he mentioned doing so.
The xr3 supposedly gets 125 mpg, since im an amatuer im setting my goal at 50 and anything above that would be icing on the cake.

as for why not a formula vee racer, arent they too low to the ground for street legality? they would also come with a racecar suspension which ive been told is too stiff for normal driving conditions.

where did you buy the miata suspension?
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BL3Manx
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Formula Vee race car has a Volkswagen beetle suspension which can be made as high or low or firm or soft as you'd desire. To save weight you could use an aftermarket aluminum beam.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I bought the Miata front suspension from my local Pick-n-Pull. The mid-engine buggy thread also has a Miata based front suspension.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=4847745

The buggy in this thread has a Pontiac Solstice based suspension

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=433798
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muffildy
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 12:09 pm    Post subject: vee Reply with quote

Hrm, formula vee frame isnt sounding as bad now then; problem is it seats just 1 though. are there any with 2 seats?
the ariel atom sure is nice, though i wonder if it would be more aerodynamic using the vw 1 liter style seating arrangement.

Too bad you got it from a pick n pull Sad though maybe thats what ill end up doing. Seems like it may be the cheapest solution.

Do you know of any ariel atom kit car chassis for sale?
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BL3Manx
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 1:29 pm    Post subject: Re: vee Reply with quote

muffildy wrote:

Do you know of any ariel atom kit car chassis for sale?


Here, I think they're only $25K or so. Don't you think an Ariel Atom is kind of overkill for 30hp and 60mph? What do you do for a living? Student?

http://www.six-river.com/index.html

No there are no two seat Formula Vee race cars.


If you've never pulled parts out of a junkyard then building any kind of kit car will probably get real expensive, real fast.


Last edited by BL3Manx on Mon Jan 17, 2011 2:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
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GTBRADLEY
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 1:35 pm    Post subject: Re: vee Reply with quote

BL3Manx wrote:

. What do you do for a living? Student?.


My thoughts as well.
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didget69
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 2:28 pm    Post subject: Re: vee Reply with quote

GTBRADLEY wrote:
BL3Manx wrote:

. What do you do for a living? Student?.


My thoughts as well.


x3

bnc
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gr8cobbler
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pick & pull (junk yards) is so much more than a cheap source for parts, at least for me. Growing up keeping a small fleet of junk cars going for our family I got a lot of education pulling parts from various machines and discovering how mechanical things really worked.

Assembling things is a whole lot different than building (making?) things....

Sounds like there is some desire to innovate a little in this pursuit.

BL, I like your geo powered miata sprung project, is there a build thread on it anywhere?
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muffildy
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 4:57 pm    Post subject: baker Reply with quote

No i work as a baker, I dont want the ariel atom in particular - i just like its style of chassis as a basis for the vehicle im making. I in particular have very little skill in any of this, but luckily my brother is adept at it so any problems will be solved.
What i would like is to just buy a fully welded frame like you can from berien buggy except in the style of the ariel atom. Though i think it needs to have slightly different dimensions.
It would be nice if it was instead the same dimensions as the vw 1 liter which are:
Length :: 144.00 in
Width :: 49.00 in
Height :: 44.00 in

The best solution would of course be if there was a chassis kit for the vw 1 liter, but i dont think it is around since that car isnt even in production yet.

It would seem that the chasis listed from that website is quite expensive. I was looking to pay only around 1500 for a chassis, but they want about 5k.
Overall i would like for this project to come in at less than 10k, but i could accept slightly more but not much.
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BL3Manx
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gr8cobbler wrote:
BL, I like your geo powered miata sprung project, is there a build thread on it anywhere?


When I get going on it again I'll put something up.
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didget69
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=433798&highlight=mid

But I'll bet the chassis won't be purchased for less than $1500...

bnc
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