5" speaker suggestions for doors?

[silversync]

Hello Folks,

Audio upgrade time. I've been scanning both Amazon and Crutchfield sites, and there are so many different ones available, 50 speakers listed on Crutchfield for 5" speakers. Many do not have the top clearance needed for the stock speaker location. And I would like to know if anyone has suggestions on brand (good and bad) or if you've found some that will fit.

Some details:
- 89 GL Syncro, airconditioning, power windows.
-Pulled the old stuff out, I found the 4 wire (not common ground) to the rear speakers. I will use these wires rather than trying to string higher quality speaker wire.
- Front doors had 5" speakers, Jensens. Rear had 4" speakers, sony. I looked up the model number and found no reference on the web for the Jensens model J245CX, and barely a reference to the old Sonys XS 1051 -- it said the Sony's were from 1990! On all of them the paper was warped and foam deteriorated.
- Front doors have a 4" - 4"1/2 inch cutout in the door panel to fit the aftermarket 5" Jensens, I can see it was cut out. Speakers were mounted on the panel.
- Have a new head unit already, and am not planning to use a power amp. Have to splice in the new harness but no big problems at this end.
- The old front door Jensens just barely fit, they hit the dashboard and have worn a little bit of the dash.

So, questions:
- I measured the clearance between the door panel and the dashboard as 13/16" to 7/8". Does that sound about correct?
- I figure I can use either 5" or 5.25" speakers. Does it really matter? What is really the difference between these 2 sizes?
- I would prefer to use the same speakers in the rear, will have to cut the opening of course, but am also fine with just putting in 4" speakers in the rear again (would save some work). Is there really much of a difference between 4" and 5" speakers?
- And then recommendations on 5" or 5.25" speakers for the front doors that have the proper small top clearance? Or maybe 6" would work if I cut the hole large and if they have the proper low top clearance.
- What about grilles? It seems that some speakers on Amazon and Crutchfield come with grilles and others do not. Am I reading that correctly?

Thank you!
Roland
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Roland: '89 Syncro, '02 911 C4S, '10 Audi A4 Avant

[pioneer1]

Hi: I've been told many times that it's not the size that counts.
Seriously-a 4" speaker of quality will out perform a junky 9". Ask the pro's where you are shopping.
Don't forget that the manual window crank will interfere with a larger speaker cover.
_________________
"Always waiting for tomorrow ruined everything"

'85 Porsche 911 Targa

'76 Westfalia project

[Classicvibe]

I didn't read your entire post, but a quick note. With manual windows, the requirements are pretty much the same for everyone. Something that sounds nice, does not protrude from the door, and then has whatever features you are ready to pay for. You should tackle things in that order because the protrusion part is going to narrow your choices ridiculously, unless you decide to drop in a speaker in the lower door, where you can use anything you like (you may have to lose your map holder).

A 3.5" speaker will work on the stock location with little modification, a 4" will take a little modification possibly. IF it is a quality speaker, these sizes will be ok as long as you cover your mids somewhere else. Ideally, you have some range up front, which includes highs (tweeters) and mids (up to 6"). The lower frequencies travel well so you can throw them just about anywhere. Next, you need power as well. You may as well put the stock speakers back in unless you plan to power your speakers a bit. There is a lot of space in the van, and for me, 45 watts RMS per channel minimum (hopefully higher) is where you want to be.

With that said, there is a crap load of info on this, so get yourself some java and start searching and reading. I chose a speaker you can still find on eBay or through woofers etc., called the Phoenix Gold Elite 5.25. It meets all the requirements (that I had). There is a post you can search called "Booyaa" I think.

2-ways are a good choice these days and make install much easier (you dont have to mount a separate tweet). Don't forget rears. Those are filler sound and you can skimp a little on them. I would still look for mids and highs back there.
_________________
On a mission, the destination is just an excuse.

Syncro Solstice 2022...see you there!

1986.5 Wolfsburg Syncro Westfalia Poptop Weekender Transporter

[toomanyveedubs]

[silversync]

Thanks for the insights guys, I haven't studied this stuff at all since my teens when I knew quite a bit, but am really starting over now.

The reason I favored the 5" is because the previous speakers in the door locations were 5 in, and the cutout opening is 4.5" in a couple of diameters. I was thinking a 4" speaker wouldn't over the opening, or even worse have locations to mount it. Fallback is to rig some kind of cover up panel, or glue something to the rear to allow mounting of 4" speakers. And I have power windows and so really would prefer to use those stock holes.

Started reading the booyaa thread, and yes I have some things to re-learn.

One thing I was considering is getting these speakers that GoWesty lists as good ones. Pioneer TS-D1002R 4 In. 2-Way Speaker with 110 Watts Max. Power (Amazon has them for less $). I called GoWesty and they fit between dash and door. Perhaps I'll just get them and see how well they fit. If not them put them in the rear (in the AC housing).

I really don't know how to determine "quality" speakers, maybe read some reviews on brands or go listen to some at best buy?

Johnny, thanks for the tip on the Phoenix speakers, if I followed your description correctly, could you confirm that they fit in the stock door location without touching the dash? (or did you put them down low in the door?).

My head unit outputs 47 watts x 4 maximum, but this is probably not RMS. I really don't need too much, my Pink Floyd days are over.

Time for Java and more reading.

Roland
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Roland: '89 Syncro, '02 911 C4S, '10 Audi A4 Avant

[1621]

First off, I don't claim to be an expert on car audio, just sharing my experiences which I'm very happy with.

I added nice 4" Inifity speakers in the stock locations, powered by an amp. I mounted the front pair behind and directly to the door panel and angled them a bit to fire more at the driver and passenger. The rears simply went into the stock locations exactly how one might imagine.

I'm not a fan of many of the speaker grills, and ultimately found some generic black mesh grills on eBay that I knew would still fit that narrow space. Matched with a decent head unit and sub the system sounds fantastic, and is better than anything I've ever had before. Just my experiences.
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'85 Westy

[tomkay]

I did this project earlier this winter. Put in a new head unit and some JBL 5.25 in the front door and rear location.

I mounted the speakers to the door itself using something that looks like plumbers tape but is much heavier duty. Got it from the car stereo place.
Also had use some washers and nuts to make a bit of a spacer so the speaker sits back from the door panel without making contact.

This was a good opportunity to put some sound deadening material on the doors and I also used it to seal around the speaker the open spaces in the hole in the door. Sounds much better and creates a vapor barrier.

I trimmed off the part of the grill that sticks through the door panel so it sits flush with the panel and just epoxied it on. It doesn't interfere with the surround this way. Looks stock and sounds a lot better than the original speakers.

Did the same in the rear. Dropped the cabinet and mounted the speakers to the cabinet from the inside and used a couple of washers as spacers so I could still use the stock grill.

It's not 100% ideal, how I did it, but I was able to keep the stock grills and we're listening to music as we drive down the highway. It's plenty loud and not distorted. That was all I really wanted.

[Classicvibe]

Here is a close up:

Pretty tough to beat that clearance. And they look super clean...I like a nice nonchallant (I have no idea how to spell that word) look:

Well, at least I think they are "clean" looking. The tag is a little annoying, but you can easily remove it. It is a reminder that I wanted to fabricate a lite "Syncro" tag for the grill.

This speaker is as big as you can go without cutting into the door metal. I actually had to notch out a small part of the back of the grill to get it to fit. These need power, and some crossover as well, so you need an amp that pushes45+ RMS and has a built in crossover or you will need to buy one. You can buy the speakers with grill and crossover on eBay for like $350. That is a lotto bucks, but this is a lot of speaker. As you probably know, in the audio world, that is not bad at all. These speakers are legendary IMO, but total power leeches. That is all cool until your alternator can't keep up. I thnk a proper vanagon alternator is small but should be fine even with a stacked system of amps. I dunno, has anyone had problems? In my opinion, a quality Vanagon amp has 5 channels (one for a sub). It should be sstable at a 2 ohm load (which basically means you can put two speakers on each channel, and the amp will double the power to the channel to power both speakers). This type of amp save space and efficiency. An example would be the Kicker zx700 or the JL hd800/5 or the like. I am too cheap for those nice amps so I am sporting two separate amps. I will clean all this crap up someday when I find the time and money.
_________________
On a mission, the destination is just an excuse.

Syncro Solstice 2022...see you there!

1986.5 Wolfsburg Syncro Westfalia Poptop Weekender Transporter

[chimivee]

I've installed MB Quart 5.25" component speakers up front in two vans with good results. I believe the model is the RCE-213. It's an older model, but Google search shows they're still available at a good price. Good sound, flush mount (clears dash), clean grill. Manual window cranks will rub (easily fixed by bending them out about slightly or with spacers).

I also stuffed an amp behind the glove box, and an amplified bass unit under the passenger seat. Nice sound, without losing any space.

_________________
-James
86 Syncro Westy, etc

[McVanagon]

I stuck with 4", but have a separate box in the back.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=252775
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=258837
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/378070.jpg
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/372270.jpg
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'69 Mike
'85 GL
'87 Wolfsburg Hardtop

[silversync]

Thanks so much for the additional insights. Now I see there are some very good options.

The good news. I drove over to the local car audio shop, Al & Ed's, might be a chain. They suggested the Alpine SPS-500, have them in stock, the spec said that the top clearance is about 7/8" so they should work. Oddly the Crutchfield site shows a spec of 1 15/16", not sure I always trust the internet specs. (Don't like the grill design however).

The bad news: I gotta get a power amp, I recall now from the past couple of cars that it really is needed. (OK fine, this is great news for sound but not for $).

More good news: it is possible to mount a PA behind the glove box, would save me all the rewiring to under the seat. (Thanks James).

Even more good news!! The head unit I am installing is new but ancient. It has the jack for the 10-CD external changer. But --- there is a connector that will "export" the audio input feed to RCA jacks so I can use my Droid 1 for tunes. A really big win. The unit I am putting in is the Kenwood KDC-516S, here is the converter plug:
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-GkesNsq9Xrm/popups/accessory.asp?i=113CAC1AX

So glad to see some options that will handle the door/dash clearance like in Johnny's pics.

Roland
_________________
Roland: '89 Syncro, '02 911 C4S, '10 Audi A4 Avant

[buildyourown]

Not to piss on your local brick and mortar, but ebay has awesome deals on high-end speakers. Still consumer grade, but nicer than your average speaker.
I think 5.25 is perfect for the front door. A grill that clears the dash is the hard part.

[Crankey]

5.25 Focal mounted behind 5/8" MDF plate.

all under the door panel, my grill is an 1/8" board with fabric over it.

[silversync]

Here is one update, I am 95% settled on the Alpine SPS-500 for the front / doors:
- the top clearance is 20.8 MM, or 13/16" which by my measurement will fit, here is the drawing: http://a248.e.akamai.net/pix.crutchfield.com/Manuals/500/500SPS500.PDF
- From the Crutchfield review, "Highly Efficient Design: The SPS-500's high-efficiency design allows the speaker to be run off of your factory or aftermarket head unit, resulting in an easy system improvement for many vehicles requiring a 5" speaker." This will be a good advantage since I can add the power amp later if needed.
- some of the ebay sources are showing them in the $46 - $63 range, vs around $89 on Amazon / Crutchfield (although I often get nervous buying on ebay).

Roland
_________________
Roland: '89 Syncro, '02 911 C4S, '10 Audi A4 Avant

[randywebb]