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1973 Ghia Cabrio "Sport" Model Value being tested
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newtrend
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 9:41 am    Post subject: 1973 Ghia Cabrio "Sport" Model Value being tested Reply with quote

Have a 1973 KG "Sport" model Cabriolet that I am trying to establish a value on. Since they are so rare I listed it on flea(e)bay to test the market and see if the fact that it is a rare "sport" model means anything at all as far as value. I've never seen another for sale anywhere (ever) and have no idea what it will bid to, so i thought this may be fun for everyone to watch and learn with me. Maybe people can post what they thought a KG in this condition was worth as-is without the "sport" model relevance so we can have a civil discussion on what it may bring over that as a "sport".

I didn't post a link so that I would not be in violation of the rules here. It's easy enough to find if you have an interest, and if not, we don't offend anyone.


Last edited by newtrend on Wed Jan 19, 2011 11:33 am; edited 1 time in total
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Ghiaddict
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sure many of us have been watching the auction.
It seems to be not the best of times to be selling right now,
but you never know. Good luck with it.
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newtrend
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not really worried about it. I'm a car nut and I am always interested in obscure models and specials so for me the interesting thing is to document a "Sport" model value since I was not able to find one single one of these that had sold anywhere in any open market. So this will be fun for me and maybe some other Ghia folks too.
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NOVA Airhead
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For me its not worth any more than any other '73 'Vert as I personally do not like the color scheme of the Sport Ghia. I think it detracts from the car's lines.

As this is a personal opinion I am sure there are others who would like it.

For those who desire a Sport Ghia I would think proof that the car was delivered with this option would be needed. Something like an orginal dealer's invoice, etc as I do not believe there is anything in the VIN or trim plate to differentiate a sport model from any other Ghia.

Also are you sure this was a factory option? Saturn Yellow was a standard color offered in 1973. I think documentation would be important for a buyer as it would not be difficult to duplicate the look of the Sport Ghia.
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jason_hamilton
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the description looks accurate, especially your note that "decals were applied UNDER the tops and moldings and headlight surrounds during the initial construction."
I don't think, short of an original invoice, you could offer more.
My only tip: go into more detail on what parts were serviced and replaced on the engine rebuild.
Bid is currently over $6K on six bids with 4-1/2 days left, so it's clear there's some real interest.
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newtrend
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interestingly enough, there was a documented Sport Ghia's original dealer invoice and VW birth certificateposted on here on another thread. I think it was EdW's car and docs. Neither document specifically mentioned the "Sport Ghia" by name. There was only one mention on the invoice about a "yellow special". So I'm not sure that asking for or providing these types of documents would really help prove anything. One thing I have noticed though is that the VIN's of the Sport models all seem to run fairly close together.

I was also under the impression that Pulsating Saturn Yellow was not a stock color available on the KG. On the Bug perhaps?
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wolfgang klinkert
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 3:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NOVA Airhead wrote:
... Also are you sure this was a factory option? ...

Yes - it was. Cool
They were offered as "yellow special":

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Also available as Coupè:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Official photo of the "Wilhelm Karmann GmbH" factory in Osnabrueck (Germany):

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



This one was sold a few years ago for US$ 3,500,-

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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newtrend
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 5:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder if the "141-1" was an indicator. Otherwise I don't know what the -1 means after the type 141.
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wolfgang klinkert
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

newtrend wrote:
I wonder if the "141-1" was an indicator. Otherwise I don't know what the -1 means after the type 141.

Yes - I think so. Wink
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NOVA Airhead
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not aware of any M code for the option. I still think it was dealer installed and they may have very well called it a Yellow Special. Not that it should matter if it appears on the dealer invoice.

The '73 brochure lists Saturn Yellow as a standard color:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/lit/73ghia/ghia_back.jpg
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newtrend
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is a picture of a "sport" Ghia stripe package decal clearly applied UNDER the rear glass. The amount of labor and potential damage to parts to install something like this at the dealer level seems to render the point moot. Both rear windows, or the convertible top on cabrios, both window seals, both mirrors, both door handles and both headlights, all 12 lower side body trim pieces and the mounting clips and the jack hole covers would have to be removed.

Does anyone have other invoices for a 1973 KG available to see what the base cost would be compared to the invoice here to see what the potential additional price for the "sport" may have been??

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Last edited by newtrend on Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:02 am; edited 1 time in total
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EdW
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is no M-code for this option. VWAG was pissed that VWoA went around their back to get this model produced and has never acknowledged that it even existed. Being the owner of one of these cars, I can guarantee you that this was not installed at the dealer. You would have to dis-assemble half the car just to do this.
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Gary
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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newtrend
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LOL, Cmon' guys, lets keep this civil. If it were not for detractors there would be no need to document ANYTHING! They do us all a favor by forcing out the proof.
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19super73
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are we to understand that you put up an ad just to see what a price might be? Are you intending to go through with the sale no matter what the final bid is?
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newtrend
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, the car will be sold to the highest bidder. But the entire purpose of using that format (for me with this car) is to see what the actual market value is for the car rather than guessing. I'm not wanting this to turn into a "sale" thread, but one that raises questions about the "Sport" model and answers a few of the questions raised.
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Russ Wolfe
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I worked at the dealers during this period.
The Sport Ghia's were NOT a dealer installed option. They were delivered to the dealer that way.
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newtrend
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Russ for clearing that up. Some of us had no doubt. Since you were there back in the day, can you give us an idea of how many you saw come through your dealership? EdW and I are curious about the number of actual cabrios made. We can only come up with four known examples.
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NOVA Airhead
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is good information on this edition.

What was VW thinking? If it was something that would sell why would they be mad? Ghia sales were already in a decline.

It was that type of thinking that contributed to VW losing market share to the Japanese!
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newtrend
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here are a couple of pics for the thread for later times so those searching the archive will know what car we are all talking about.

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