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VanMan2009
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

just to add on, since this has been sort of a pet-project of mine and I've read a lot on the subject.

1. Denwood - I seem to remember the post you were talking about, it's a couple years old I believe. Anyway, if it's the same one I'm thinking about the only sound deadening that was done was to reduce panel resonance via a fatmat product, or something like that. All this stuff does is keep the panels from vibrating so much and amplifying / creating noise. It doesn't block the noise from the engine /tires /air, which would explain why he didn't see much of an improvement.

To get best results you need to dampen the panels, and then float a mass loaded vinyl (or similar) product over it. The foam layer exists to decouple the MLV from the body to keep it from amplyfying sounds. You need all 3 for the best results.

2. PDXSyncro - the 2 in one product (foam + MLV) will work, but I've read in other forums it can be a challenge to work with, given it's increased thickness. Somestimes in tight spots you may only be able to squeeze in a little bit of foam and MLV, but you lose that option with the dual product. Also when you overlap ends you'll get more thickness as well since you've now got a layer that's foam, vinyl, foam, vinyl.

Anyway, just my 2c
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randywebb
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

agree - but you can just scrape the foam off for the small areas involved

it is easier to work with the composite over most areas

PDXSyncro - shipping can e a killer on the MLV as it is heavy; look around locally

BTW - in an old thread somebody mentioned something that home depot carries - a search might turn it up
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PDXSyncro
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good comments. At the end of the day I'm not hopeful that I'll get anywhere near the STC that the product advertises (28 I believe in this case). What I'm hoping is to reduce the noise down to a level where conversations are possible while cruising at 70mph. As was it was very difficult. If I can get that noise down and start having some normal conversations I'll be happy and worth the money/effort. I'm also going to change from BFG's to Nokian WRC's so that should help as well. I guess we'll see. I'm definitely going to validate this to see whether the change in noise is noticeable and worth it. I report back when done with some pics.
thanks,
glen
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randywebb
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

you'll want to address wind noise also

and have you done any treatments under the dash?
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PDXSyncro
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any thoughts on wind noise reduction? I haven't researched that. I currently have some wind/rain deflectors on the front doors. Not sure what else can be done.
I didn't take out the dash so I didn't have plans to do anything there. I guess I could bite the bullet on that and take it out and put fatmat on as I have some. I was going to bypass that one though as I saw the dash removal as a giant pain. I know that there are videos and write ups on it but outside of dampening what other benefits do I have with removing that? Anything else I could do while in there?
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randywebb
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

it is a pain - the size of the pain relates to your age, and ability to do various yoga positions

there are lots of other things that can be addressed with the dash out tho - or just get up under there with it in place...

GW has those door edge strips and there are the extra seals used on later MY's) that people have posted about here

apply dampener to the door skins & a layer to replace the plastic weather seal - IIRC, I posted pics of this when I did it to mine & I thin there is an example photo sequence on cascadeaudio's web site

Ultimately, you would need to redesign the entire front of a new vehicle to really reduce wind noise...

Urethane suspension bushings generally do a great job of increasing NVH and tire noise, so I suggest avoiding those.

Good Luck!
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PDXSyncro
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FYI for others I found this MLV/Closed Cell Foam composite that appears to be the cheapest yet at $200 for 90sqft + shipping:
http://www.yahoosoundproofing.com/compositevinyl.html
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 9:35 am    Post subject: How About the Roof Reply with quote

My Doka is currently getting a new roof, and before replacing my headliner I would like to place some sound deadener up above. It seems this thread talks about a spray on option as being preferred, however I do not think this is an option for me considering $$ and time. Has anyone used the fatmat, second skin, peel and stick products on the roof? I just don't want the heat of a hot day to melt or run any asphalt materials down into my headliner and make a mess.

When it rains, the top of my doka sounds like a jamacian steel drum. Syncrodoka suggested that I use the stock tintop felt material from another van, I tried sourcing this, but my seller disappeared. Anyone have a suggestion for roof applications?
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PDXSyncro
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's lots of threads on this but you can still go with a spray based solution that is cheap. Noxudol has a aerosol product that sells for 27.50 a can:
http://www.noxudolusa.com/noxudolstore/ccp0-catshow/SoundDamping.html

You might call them to determine how much sq ft you can cover with a can.

Just a thought.
cheers,
glen
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westyventures
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I recently applied three coats of QuietCar to my Syncro Westy - inside all panels, on the floor, over the engine. It took four gallons and the results are astounding. The five-gallon pail set me back $300 shipped (it took 4 gallons), $20 for a cheap schutz gun. All cavities were then insulated with EnGuard batts.
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randywebb
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

manfs. make products specifically for roof applications - dynamutt & cascadeaudio should have them
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Farfrumwork
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

randywebb wrote:
you'll want to address wind noise also

and have you done any treatments under the dash?


This is my main issue. I found this when my wife was driving the van, I stepped back to hang with the kids.. I was shocked at how much quieter it was back there. This was at 70mph, engine working decently hard climbing slight grades from NE to CO.

The frontal wind noise is far worse than engine noise (at speed anyway).

I have the front doors (interior) somewhat covered in raamatt (dynamatt-like stick on) to try to coax some better sound out of my 6.5" speakers.

I guess I need to get into the dash for much more real effect here. Mad


The most engine noise I hear is from the air intake. My EJ22 intake stops at the air cleaner box - I might try to rig up a stock-like resonator system, snorkel, to quiet the ROAR that occurs at full throttle climbs over mnt passes.

I may have to apply a simple (and relatively cheep) foam-type composite over the engine cover and under the rear seat as well, but the air intake resonance noise is probably readily transfered through the rear pillar (right above the intake) so I would need to maybe throw some Raamatt inside there..
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PDXSyncro
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

westyventures wrote:
All cavities were then insulated with EnGuard batts.

Hmmm. I haven't seen this product before. Thanks for the hint!
-g
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eeebee Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Farfrumwork wrote:
randywebb wrote:
you'll want to address wind noise also

and have you done any treatments under the dash?


This is my main issue. I found this when my wife was driving the van, I stepped back to hang with the kids.. I was shocked at how much quieter it was back there. This was at 70mph, engine working decently hard climbing slight grades from NE to CO.

The frontal wind noise is far worse than engine noise (at speed anyway).


As it has been noted in several of these threads and in several different ways, you really need to close the inevitable gaps in all the existing seals first, at the doors, windows and the air intake under the dash.
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almo
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 1:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

westyventures wrote:
I recently applied three coats of QuietCar to my Syncro Westy - inside all panels, on the floor, over the engine. It took four gallons and the results are astounding. The five-gallon pail set me back $300 shipped (it took 4 gallons), $20 for a cheap schutz gun. All cavities were then insulated with EnGuard batts.


Does anyone have a link to the Quietcar stuff or know where i can get it?

Ive been lookin for a website but doesn't seem to be any?

Whats the next best or similar product

Cheers
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PDXSyncro
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 6:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Almo,
There's this stuff out of Bend Or:
http://cascadeaudio.com/car_noise_control/vb_1x.htm

Cheers,
Glen
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westyventures
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

QuietCar is also sold as QuietCoat, same product:
http://www.soundcontrolroom.com/shop/quiet-coat-noise-vibration-dampening-coating
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westyventures
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, another less expensive product I just turned up:

http://acousticalsolutions.com/31~vbd-10-damping-compound

I think I'll give it a try in the next project.
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Steve M.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I came across this article, but haven't had a chance to read it yet. It might be worthwhile, but I jumped to the end of it and "they" are trying to sell you their product so I kinda kills the unbiased opinion I hoped I would find in reading it.

http://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com/
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almo
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

westyventures wrote:
I recently applied three coats of QuietCar to my Syncro Westy - inside all panels, on the floor, over the engine. It took four gallons and the results are astounding. The five-gallon pail set me back $300 shipped (it took 4 gallons), $20 for a cheap schutz gun. All cavities were then insulated with EnGuard batts.


Hi There

If you have a min I need some advice.

I have my interior out and all cleaned etc.. taped off and I think I'm ready to apply.


I have 5 gal of quite coat....

There is not much in the line of directions on the pale?

Questions?

- Could you point me in the right direction for a gun? I dont think i have the right one I bought one from ebay and on a test today (piece of cardboard) it didn't seem to work at all! seems to splatter out in lumps no steady spray. I tried multiple psi points, no joy. This is the gun I bought:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Astro-Pneumatic-UCG100-Air...1c3ced5bac

- Its very thick! How much do I need to stir up the stuff? or do i need to stir at all?

- What psi is good to shoot with?

- Is cleaning and d-greasing the inside enough? Do I need rough up the smooth paint with sand paper as well or will it just stick to the original paint inside the van?


Thanks in advance

Cheers
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