Doka Rear Gate Fails

[Bman]

Hello, and yes I have tried searching the forum for this information; however to limited luck.

So as is usual for the acquiring of a new "old" vehicle I have been getting to know my new 1984 2WD Doka over the last 3 weeks. First I had a starter issue which turned out to be a loose wire connection; then in checking my distributor cap I confused my wires, messed up my timing, and learned a lot about the ignition system of my 2.1L WBX. Now, this weekend while showing my new "truck" to a pal, I snapped a hinge while lowering a tailgate. "JAY-sus!" I said, I knew it was stiff but it never occurred to me to look closer and add some lubricant; but now I have a busted hinge on my starboard tailgate, and guess what: three of my other 5 hinges all show some form of stress cracks; obviously a weak point of this design. I have tried to hammer the pins out of these hinges to clean and grease up; however; all but one pin is locked in. outside of wailing on these hinges what can I do to free the gates?

The tailgates are in great shape, but for these hinges; what are other Doka owners doing out there for tailgate maintenance and repair? What can I do here? One thought is to cut the damaged tailgate off the remaining hinge, cut out the old and frozen pins and hinges and discard, fabricate new hinges from new metal components, test, test again, and weld the new hinges (with a proper offset) back onto the tailgate hinge studs. Do some minor body work on the hinges to ensure quality, prime and paint. This fix will be cheaper, stronger, and possibly fun; however it certainly won’t be stock. I am concerned about price, because I put all of my free cash into the original acquisition of the Doka, and I’m concerned about quality of look and functionality. Will potential future buyers look down on this; is this considered a no-no in the VW community? Of course it all depends on the quality of the job and that will be priority #1. What do other Doka owners think? What are some other options that I’m not considering?

Any advice would be welcomed.
Thanks, Bryan
_________________
~Bryan
1990 Burgandy Tintop (Wife's Daily Driver)
1989 Tiico Westfalia "Taj"




2WD Doka build thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=503578&highlight=
FaceHook:
https://www.facebook.com/pages/VW-T3-DokaSinka/129026087217120?ref=hl

[ckissick]

My doka is currently undergoing a paint job. They tried to remove the gates, but some pins were so rusted, nothing would get them out. So they cut the pin sleeves out and ruined the pins. They re-built them by welding in new sleeves from scrap. New pins were made from bolts. There's no way to tell that they're not original. I wish I could give you more details, but I wasn't there when they did it. But a good body shop can get 'er done.
_________________
Charlie
1950 Beetle
1983 Westfalia
1989 syncro Tristar
1966 Porsche 912
1989 Beck Spyder
2007 GTI Fahrenheit

[WestyBob]

Generally speaking the doka and sinka hinges see the hardest service and need to be frequently observed and maintained. The fact that it's metal on metal during rotations means water gets in and rust begins relatively soon after.

From the pics you need to have all the pins removed and replaced. Before replacement you need to remove all the rust in and around those hinges. Not some or most, all. Places where the metal is weak or nearly dust needs to be cut out. All this you can do yourself with patience. It's not rocket science.

Where you might be missing chunks - consider what the previous poster said. Check out shops that might be able to fabricate some pieces and weld them in. Get a few estimates. Stress the need to have them shaped and welded as close to stock as possible. This will require a little of your time and coin to get done.

You can check places like BusDepot for original pin replacements, or many use bolts from their flaps that work as well and if painted after mounting look almost stock. If you're in the Pdx area you might check Winks Hardware - take in an old pin and ask them if they have another - it's amazing what they might have.

Most of this requires sweat equity but you'll appreciate the doka even more afterward.

[fatgermanparts]

My single cab was originally a "wide body" (wood body), I am not using the metal parts you need. I need to compare the hinge ends with my metal side gates-I think they are the same.
I'll try to get back with you.
As far as the "community"is concerned, I'm from the school of whatever works for ME.
My 81 single cab was a 2 wheel drive diesel 70 hp...... now it's a syncro, 1.8 turbo gasoline 230hp, metal gates-hauls ass.
Or see a good metal fabricator that can help you. I use stainless bolts for pins, now,
from "Fastenal" ( I have the original pins , if you need them)
John
(Fatgerman)

[Crankey]

if my gate hinges were that rusty I'd start looking for more rust around the truck.

can you get a thin grinder cut off wheel between the gate hinge and the part of the hinge welded to the truck ? I mean a thin, (less than 1/16") wheel to cut the pins ?...looks at my own truck...no not really. well you could if you do end up needing to weld in new sleeves. I guess that's how I'd end up approaching it.
if your not graceful with a 4 1/2" grinder, find someone who is and you should not damage the hinge any further.

I have seen original doka gate pins cadmium plated on ebay. if not you should also be able to find suitable pins at some hardware store, commercial hardware or McMaster Car (sp !?!)

hopefully the part of the hinge welded to the truck is in good shape. I'm a welder/fabricator by trade and I spose I could rebuild the rusted out gate hinges in a day or so. depending on how perfectly original I was trying to make them

it's nice that your truck is white, probably an easier color to match ?

I have a problem with my treasure box hinges...Tristar Eric did a little photo essay on his rebuild on them so I need to get on that.

I've never liked the metal to metal hinge on my rear door, treasure box or gates. they should get nylon bushings.

good luck man and report back on how you get this resolved.

[BenT Syncro]

Brian,

The guy who bought my old Doka is parting the gates. They have rust in the bottom rail but the hinges are in great shape. If you're local to San Francisco, you may be able to persuade him to just let you cut whatever you need. If he has to do it, he's going to want something for his time.

The hinge portion that stays with the body are still available from some Doka specialists such as Tristar Connection in Germany. I've bought from Lars many times for my various Dokas.

I realize Vic Ahmed from Vanamania is not exactly a respected vendor here, but I got some gate pins from him which looked better than the factory pins I got from Germany. I believe these are repros that he has made somewhere in Asia. They are cad-plated and fits just fine even with correct slots for the c-clips. Time will tell how durable they are.

Also got some gate bumpstops from him that appear first rate. The factory ones I have have a flat finish. The ones from a well known repro maker in the US are rough in appearance. The ones Vic got me are very smooth.

I do not want to endorse any particular vendor. If you use anyone I mentioned, caveat emptor. I happen to visit in person everytime I got parts or had them shipped from Germany.

I am rebuilding some aluminum Tristar gates for my Syncro 16 Doka. You think you have problems? The reaction between the alloy gates and steel pins once wet effectively weld the pins to the hinges. I sprayed one daily for a month then put it on of a 5 ton press. Still could not get the pins out. Heat didn't work either. I've removed one of the good hinges and will resolve to getting machined as others have done in Europe.

Owning a rare vehicle does present it's own unique challenges.


Cheers,

BenT

[shaun0008]

[Tristar Eric]

If your pins are rusted in and won't move with a slight tap of a hammer and punch. Stop before you damage the hinge portion welded to the bed. Ask me how I know. You will shear those right off with too much pounding.

What I came up with has worked on several Dokas that I needed to get the gates off of.

Open the gate so it's hanging down, use a dremel cut off wheel and carefully slice the backside of the pin holder, cut as close as you can to the bed hinge portion without touching it. Cut deep enough that you reach the pin. Once you have a length wise slice, take a sharp chisel and finish the slice with a small tap. You'll see it split. At this point I flood the pin with lube and work on the others. They usually slip out with a little tap.
Since the slice is on the bottom side it's not visable when the gate is in the up position. Bonus is that the pins will slip in and out easily with the relief cut. A couple of small tack welds and little grinder action, and you're good to go!

[BenT Syncro]

Sorry for moving tangent to the subject but has anyone found a source for the Tristar alloy gate hinges? I'm planning on getting them CNC milled but sure would prefer to get them ready made. I can't remember if it was Russell, Stuart, or CJ who had some made in the UK. Unfortunately, they only made enough for their project. The orginals were extruded but copies will likely be cheaper to produce as a machined part.

Here's my trashed hinge:

And here's the reproduction:

[shaun0008]

Hello Ben, I have four spare alloy gate hinges left over from a prior project if you need them give me a call. By the way the alloy gates were not just used for Tristars they could be ordered for any crewcab or single cab. I cut down two sets of gates from single cabs for mine and a friends Tristar and that is why I have a few extra hinges. Shaun
_________________
1990 Tristar Syncro Doka
1987 German fire van
1987 German Army Radio van
1987 German Ambulance
1990 16" Syncro Westfalia
1987 Syncro Westfalia
1963 Beetle Convertible

[Bman]

Thanks for the replys.
I am still in the process of going over every part of this Doka, and for the most part I am rust free, except for some seam rust and these hinges that I need to address.
Shaun, I may be interested in your spare pins once I get my gates off and start assessing the situation, thanks.
Eric, I like your idea of making length wise cuts on the back of the hinges to lube and release; that sounds like a good way to maintain the stock look; and trust me on how reluctant I was to pound too hard on the hinges as they are.
For the most part, the part of the hinges welded to the truck are still in good shape and I can work from there. I do have some welding and fabricating experience and will trying replacing the broken hinge, but if I can't I'll have to find a local body shop to help.
I'll keep posting as I move on this. Thanks again.
_________________
~Bryan
1990 Burgandy Tintop (Wife's Daily Driver)
1989 Tiico Westfalia "Taj"




2WD Doka build thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=503578&highlight=
FaceHook:
https://www.facebook.com/pages/VW-T3-DokaSinka/129026087217120?ref=hl

[Bman]

O-Yeah

BenT can you get me the contact info for the fella in San Fran, although not in the neighborhood he certainly is within my region.

Also I see what appears to be some aftermarket Alluminum gates on some of the other Doka's out there. What are the stories with those and where do you get them?

Bryan
_________________
~Bryan
1990 Burgandy Tintop (Wife's Daily Driver)
1989 Tiico Westfalia "Taj"




2WD Doka build thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=503578&highlight=
FaceHook:
https://www.facebook.com/pages/VW-T3-DokaSinka/129026087217120?ref=hl

[Crankey]

There are fancy aluminum gates -$$$
and in the UK and Germany, there is fiberglass, plywood core gates,which look pretty cool, but ...ehh, I don't like the wood core idea. The latched on these 'glass gates are hidden... maybe DIY ?

[BenT Syncro]

[BenT Syncro]

[BenT Syncro]

[16CVs]

As an owner of a set alloy gates . I like the weight of them in everyday use, much lighter . Most commercial alloys are anodized before being painted ,as it opens the pores .
I sit on the fence between painting them or not, I actually like the looks of the contrast .

Stacy
_________________
1987 Syncro Westfalia Triple knob (bastard)
1989 Syncro Tristar Triple knob "Swedish"
2013 Jetta Hybrid a true "Zwitter"
Samba member # 14980
Call anytime number 650 722 4914 .
Keep Your van running and upkept tastefully for the love of the hobby.
Don't let your van end up in an "abortions" thread.

[BenT Syncro]

[Crankey]

remember anodising is very difficult to touch up, aluminum is soft and also corrodes into white dust.

steel is easy to weld and fix...well, I can weld aluminum just fine but I trust steel more than aluminum, and they are gates for a truck...it's not like a carbon fiber hood on a race car.

if you really wanted rust protection you could also have steel gates totally stripped, and then zinc plated (not hot dipped, they'd warp all to hell) and then painted, even dipped in zinc paint.

there's also the galvanic reaction between the steel hinge and pin between the aluminum hinge parts to consider...(we have a big thread about galvanic reactions here heh)

[BenT Syncro]