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Vango Conversions
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Joined: October 04, 2010
Posts: 1054
Location: Seattle, WA
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 Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 12:03 am Post subject: Smallcar bellhousing clutch options |
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All the previous Subaru swaps that I've done have used the KEP adapter plate and flywheel but I'm going to use the Smallcar bellhousing on my next subaru swap and I was wondering if anyone out there has had any experience with them, specifically the pressure plates. I'm installing an 07 Ej25 which I believe is rated at 173hp and SC says that the stock Subaru pressure plate is only good for 145hp and below  and I need a "stage 2" pressure plate. I know the Vanagon is heavier than a Forrester but the Subaru has AWD so the clutch should be strong enough to hold the power right?
Just wondering if anyone out there has any experience with this setup. I like to use as many stock parts as possible as the price tends to be lower and the reliability tends to be higher. Any thoughts? |
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Team WorldTour
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Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 2426
Location: Der Vaterland
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| Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 12:09 am Post subject: |
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The advice I got for my 3L convert was to use Turbo-rated Impreza parts.
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iltis74
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Joined: November 20, 2003
Posts: 826
Location: Anchorage, AK
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| Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 1:12 am Post subject: |
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| You must have gone with RJES then, pretty sure Smallcar won't take the turbo parts. I too went RJES Turbo, so I'm no real help, but I wonder if you could use the RJES input shaft with that to get away with a Subaru disk? Is there no factory 2.5L clutch setup that works here? Weird. |
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Worms
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Joined: May 19, 2009
Posts: 279
Location: Whangarei, New Zealand
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| Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 1:13 am Post subject: |
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I should have kept the parts numbers...
I used a Subaru 2.5 pressure plate, which my local SUBlab dealer got for me. He searched the parts list for the highest clamping force, as they do vary. The clutch plate is the smallcar one with the VW centre and subaru disc.
My engine is 165hp, and I have NO issues whatsoever - even hard starts, and high speed gear changes. It breaks traction before the clutch slips.
The subaru pressure plate for the engine you have would work fine. |
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ALIKA T3
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Joined: July 30, 2009
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Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
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SyncroGhia
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Joined: August 21, 2009
Posts: 2458
Location: Highnam, UK
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| Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 2:34 am Post subject: |
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The RJES input shaft may fit with the Smallcar bellhousing but, from what I've seen and read (and measured), the Smallcar bellhousing is deeper (longer, pushing the engine further away from the gearbox) than the RJES bellhousing so it wouldn't be long enough for any other application.
I would doubt that RJES would want to spend time working out if any of his products will or won't work with any products from a competitor.
I can't comment on whether RJES would sell you one of his input shafts or not, that's his call.
MG
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Westendwulf
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Joined: December 01, 2008
Posts: 42
Location: 907
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| Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 3:22 am Post subject: |
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Hi Vango,
Don't have an answer to your question but wanted to show you the set up from rjes ........
the input shaft makes it a very tidy kit.
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Christopher Schimke
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Joined: August 03, 2005
Posts: 5390
Location: PNW
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| Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 7:40 am Post subject: |
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| ALIKA T3 wrote: |
RJES input shaft won't fit in Smallcar bellhousing and he won't sell it to you... 
Bye! |
I am 99% certain that the reason Richard (RJES) won't sell his input shaft for use with the Small Car bellhousing is because of the way the Small Car kit requires the repositioning of the input shaft via their spacer. This pushes the input shaft away from the mainshaft which reduces spline engagement. Richard and I have talked at length about this and and both of us agree that the reduced spline engagement that the spacer imparts is not all that wise. I'm sure that Richard simply does not want one of his shafts torn up because of this lack of engagement because inevitably, the blame will end up being put on RJES, not Small Car.
From a hydraulic/clutch actuation standpoint, I would suggest driving a van equipped with a SC bellhousing before making a decision.
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svxcarat
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Joined: May 19, 2009
Posts: 127
Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:20 am Post subject: |
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| I did an SVX conversion with the small car bellhousing. The clutch does not feel as smooth as the adapter plate one in my eyes. It is very springy and releases more abrupt. (With a high torque pressure plate in both) If you ever have problems with the clutch slave you would have to take the tranny or engine out. |
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j_dirge
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Joined: August 08, 2007
Posts: 4641
Location: Twain Harte, CA
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| Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:51 am Post subject: |
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| svxcarat wrote: |
| I did an SVX conversion with the small car bellhousing. The clutch does not feel as smooth as the adapter plate one in my eyes. It is very springy and releases more abrupt. (With a high torque pressure plate in both) If you ever have problems with the clutch slave you would have to take the tranny or engine out. |
Have you guys done an RJES bellhousing, yet?
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ALIKA T3
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Christopher Schimke
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Location: PNW
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| Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:03 am Post subject: |
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| ALIKA T3 wrote: |
Splines diameter is bigger,doesn't go through the bellhousing.  |
I'm not taking about the splines for the clutch disk, I am talking about the splines on the other end of the input shaft that go into the spacer between the input shaft and the main shaft.
The way that Small Car is able to keep the same distance at the bellhousing as with an adapter is by adding a spacer in between the input shaft and the main shaft. This reduces the amount of spline engagement in that area (as well as at the clutch disk if I'm not mistaken). It is for that reason (the potential lack of durability) that I think Richard will not sell his input shaft for use with the Small Car bellhousing.
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"Sometimes you have to build a box to think outside of." - Bruce (not Springsteen)
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svxcarat
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Joined: May 19, 2009
Posts: 127
Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:05 am Post subject: |
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| j_dirge wrote: |
| svxcarat wrote: |
| I did an SVX conversion with the small car bellhousing. The clutch does not feel as smooth as the adapter plate one in my eyes. It is very springy and releases more abrupt. (With a high torque pressure plate in both) If you ever have problems with the clutch slave you would have to take the tranny or engine out. |
Have you guys done an RJES bellhousing, yet? |
No I have not used that one yet |
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J Charlton 
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Joined: August 24, 2007
Posts: 1546
Location: The True North Strong and Free
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| Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:07 am Post subject: small car bellhousing and clutch |
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I put a Subaru pressure plate in when I installed my 2.5 2 years ago with the smallcar bellhousing. It broke this past summer. Smallcar expressed me the replacement clutch disk, pressure plate and flywheel overnight. They now recommend a heavier pressure plate, I found that the replacement parts were competitively priced and I couldn't have asked for better service. I was back on the road 36 hours after the clutch disintegrated - not bad considering I was in Amarillo Texas, a long way from Tacoma Wa.
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insyncro
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Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15086
Location: New York
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| Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:15 am Post subject: |
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I have experience with both the SC bellhousing and the RJES.
I prefer the RJES for a few different reasons.
dylan
Last edited by insyncro on Thu Feb 03, 2011 6:48 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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SyncroGhia
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Joined: August 21, 2009
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Location: Highnam, UK
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| Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:30 am Post subject: |
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| ALIKA T3 wrote: |
| Splines diameter is bigger,doesn't go through the bellhousing. |
As far I know, the splines are a larger diameter but they pass through the stock seal without problem. I've no idea what the smallcar bellhousing uses so can't comment whether it would fit through.
MG
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Vango Conversions
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Joined: October 04, 2010
Posts: 1054
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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Wow, thanks for all the replies everyone. I didn't mean for this to turn into a discussion about what adapter/bell housing was best but it has raised some interesting questions.
I've always had good luck with the KEP adapter plate and the stock VW clutch, no slipping issues. I was just going to try the Small car route due to the heavier Subaru flywheel and the Subaru starter being stronger than the stock VW unit. It sounds like the SC unit has some durability issues which I wasn't aware of. I always want to put reliability before anything else so maybe I won't go this route. I was planning on picking up the parts tomorrow morning.
RJES units seem to look nice but the price seems a bit too steep and seems like shipping would take a while to the states, unless there is a US distributer. Looks like I may just do another KEP adapter, still thinking about it though. |
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Team WorldTour
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Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 2426
Location: Der Vaterland
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| Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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In auto parts, you get what you pay for. Richards bellhousing IS top-notch. I highly reccomend you look at them again. Shipping should only be a week. I had mine shipped to me through the APO system (military mail), and it took a week and a half. You will need the stock Subi stuff, but its easier to get to and change out than the SC. Look at it again before you make up your mind....
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Click to view image
H6 Subaru Engine Swap Thread
WV2ZZZ25ZFH094138(x)/ WV2YB0257LH057308(x)/ WV2ZZZ25ZLG113270/
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914 mike
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Joined: May 03, 2005
Posts: 431
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| Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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I used Outfront Motor Sports stuff on mine. Although its a 2.2 set up, I have been very happy. I know they build some high horsepower stuff for offroad applications....you might consider them...
http://www.outfrontmotorsports.com/clutch_flywheel.htm
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r39o
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Joined: May 18, 2005
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Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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Which one of the items in the Small Car kit picture is the above referenced spacer?
.
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