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Automatic Transmission leak after rebuild...updated w/?'s
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Hendoo
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:09 pm    Post subject: Automatic Transmission leak after rebuild...updated w/?'s Reply with quote

The leak was coming from between the automatic portion and the transaxle. It is back at the shop that did the rebuild now, and they are going to take it back apart and reseal the halves. What could have gone wrong to make this leak?

They said that it had been apart before and in addition to the old seals that were in there, there was a bunch of silicone. They had just cleaned it all out and put in new seals and gaskets.

That makes me think that there may be some other issue with trying to get it sealed that the previous rebuilder had? Why else would there be silicone in there? Can there be something wrong with the hard metal parts that the seals go in that would make it leak?

Thanks for any input, just wondering what may have caused the leak and hoping that the reseal works!


Last edited by Hendoo on Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There can always be something wrong, that is just the nature of machinery. Your shop is just going to have to look closely and see if they can determine what is causing the leak.

You didn't say what was leaking, ATF or 90wt?
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AtlasShrugged
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 6:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the leak is ATF, then the big "O" ring is not sealing.

The originals were round (cross section) and the replacements are square.

The new style provide a better seal, but are easy to pinch or twist when assembling.

Be sure and have them lube the big "O" ring with ATF or better still..Vaseline.

Have the paper gaskets between the trans and diff done too..while they are there..just to be sure.

If its gear oil (unlikely) that's another story.
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MarkWard
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is also some measurements that need to be taken, some math done and then the appropriate shim combination needs to be installed between the two sections.
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Hendoo
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was ATF fluid. What kind of measurements? Wouldn't you just reinstall everything (shims, etc) the same way they were when it was taken apart? Why would any measurement change?
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AtlasShrugged
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hendoo wrote:
It was ATF fluid. What kind of measurements? Wouldn't you just reinstall everything (shims, etc) the same way they were when it was taken apart? Why would any measurement change?


If done correctly, the existing shims would be OK. Your not changing the dimensions.
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MarkWard
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my experience if someone used silicone to seal it, it is unlikey they knew what they were doing. I would not assume anything. It should be checked and eliminated as a contributor to the problem. Or you can have the shop just attempt to reseal it, install it, and cross your fingers.
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AtlasShrugged
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess the key question is..why did they go in the transmission the first time?

Sounds like they were trying to correct a leak with the silicon sealer. If so, did they bugger the "O" ring, take it back out and slap it back together with sealer to get it out of the shop? (very bad plan), or, did they think it needed silicon sealer as a matter of building the transmission? (a very, very bad plan)

Sounds like a small matter, but if they are in a hurry and did not do a careful reassembly, changed the dimensions with new parts and just put the old shims back in, it may not be right.

Or..they could of just resealed the transmission and used the same shims.

RSXSR makes a good point. The measurements are fiddly but not hard to do or really all that time consuming. It is worth a check.
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not an unusual practice to bed an o-ring in silicone. A lot of guys do it as a matter of course. I haven't found it necessary to add silicon to an o-ring all the often and silicone would not be my first choice to use to help seal a big loose fitting o-ring like this one, but if everything else fails it might be worth a try.
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Hendoo
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:13 pm    Post subject: Update....looks like gear oil Reply with quote

AtlasShrugged wrote:
If its gear oil (unlikely) that's another story.


So after looking closer at this, it does seem to be gear oil that is leaking from between the 2 halfs (clearish fluid, not pink ATF).

It did go back to the guy that did it and all he said it needed was a new transaxle pan gasket...well that did not fix it!

What does gear oil leaking from between the auto and transaxle sections indicate?
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MarkWard
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are back to back seals that that keep the hypoid and the atf separated on the back of the differential. They fit into a cover that is bolted to the differential housing. There is also a large and small O ring that seal the cover to the differential housing. It will need to be separated again.
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GeeZ12
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Remove the fill plug for the differential and check the level. Be prepared to catch extra fluid and check to see if ATF or gear oil. Oil can leak from the vent located on top of the differential on the passenger side above and forward of center of the cv joint flange if the level is real high in the differential.

If the level is proper or low then find the leak. It is not uncommon to shear the large o-ring when mating the diff and auto sections. There is no real way to repair the sheared o-ring (even if it is only a nick) and many people will risk the repair with silicone rather than wait for a new part. I always use an ample coating of petroleum jelly on the o-ring during this assembly procedure. It can be difficult - I have been known to cut plastic from a thin milk jug to wrap around the o-ring to facilitate this procedure and prevent nicks. The paper gasket should also be coated with petroleum jelly so that it does not move during assembly and helps to seal.

If the level is high you will have the 'milkshake' when mixing ATF and gear oil. Entry points are usually from the pinion and governor seals.

Good Luck

just my 2

Gary
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Hendoo
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As much as I want to hold the guy responsible for this that did the rebuild, me and a friend may just drop the transmission and seperate the halfs to do a reseal.

What parts do I need to order, sounds like 5? 2 of the seals that are back to back, a small o-ring, a large o-ring and a paper gasket.

Anything else?
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The governor shaft seal is the other seal that can cause leaking between the two halves. Depending on the brand/design of this seal, it can be hard to get in right. There is also a pinion seal buried deep inside the final drive.

Last edited by Wildthings on Fri Mar 11, 2011 12:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
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MarkWard
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You might want to get the large o ring that fits the outside differential flange that is exposed when you split the two sections. Better to have it on hand. There are measurements that should be made and the proper shim combination selected. It should not change, but you should verify it is shimmed properly as long as you are going through the fire drill again.
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Hendoo
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 12:26 pm    Post subject: gear oil for sure...another question Reply with quote

So still not totally fixed. Cleaned and drove to see where leak coming from, as still not sure if it was coming from between the halves.

looked to still be coming from the transaxle pan so pulled the transaxle pan and resealed it without the crappy cork seal (used some Mercedes sealant my mechanic friend said is good) and the leak is less, but still there.

On very close inspection after claening and driving again, it is coming out of the weep hole that is directly in front (front of van) the transaxle pan, just behind where the halves come together.

Waiting to make sure that it is not some residual leakage from before, but what would cause diff fluid to leak from this weep hole?
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MarkWard
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Confused? Is it leaking ATF or Hypoid?
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Hendoo
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not ATF, it is clear gear oil.
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AtlasShrugged
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:05 am    Post subject: Re: gear oil for sure...another question Reply with quote

Hendoo wrote:
So still not totally fixed. Cleaned and drove to see where leak coming from, as still not sure if it was coming from between the halves.

looked to still be coming from the transaxle pan so pulled the transaxle pan and resealed it without the crappy cork seal (used some Mercedes sealant my mechanic friend said is good) and the leak is less, but still there.

On very close inspection after claening and driving again, it is coming out of the weep hole that is directly in front (front of van) the transaxle pan, just behind where the halves come together.

Waiting to make sure that it is not some residual leakage from before, but what would cause diff fluid to leak from this weep hole?


I think the weep hole is a channel that comes down from the housing for the "back to back" seals.

Its been a while..so I can't be sure. Others with a transaxle on the shop floor may speak up.

In any event...how much is it leaking? Will the leaking mark a spot on the pavement?

You just replaced the diff pan gasket..do you fill the diff back up to the lower edge of the fill hole? Just want to eliminate an over filled transaxle as a possibility.
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mariusstrom
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Man, I'm having flashbacks to last week with this thread. Smile

I posted a very similar story after having my tranny rebuilt by a shop in Everett (not sure where in the great NW you are Smile) but mine was leaking pink ATF after putting load on the transmission. Brought it back to the shop, showed them the pics of the leak, and they decided they'd need to drop, re-split, and replace the seals between AT and FD. Exact same scenario as yours though: previously had been siliconed up around the entire FD/AT interface.

While the guy had it out again, he did note that the vent cap on the AT section wasn't as clear as it should be, so he cleaned it out a bit and drilled a tiny vent hole in the cap. Had it back for three days and driven ~100 miles, and no sign of leaks anymore.
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