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TD 1.6 vanagon project
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iffyaviator
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 6:11 pm    Post subject: TD 1.6 vanagon project Reply with quote

Hello my name is Michael, I am a senior in high school and bought a turbo diesel Vanagon about 1 year ago.

The engine was half torn apart when i purchased it so I'm not sure how everything goes.

I rebuilt the engine buying all the parts from Parts Place incorporated. I am looking for a KKK K14 turbo and oil lines for it also intake and coolant lines. Parts place wants $1000 for a turbo. if I could get a good used one that would be helpful.

I am stuck on the turbo right now the old one is bad and all the studs are rusted in it I also am looking or where I can buy a turbo rebuild kit and parts for the turbo.

my plan is to head to alaska in it this summer I will be going to school up there.
I am sure I will have a lot of questions here soon as i get close to engine installation.

I am new to this site and seeking good reliable information to finish up my project.
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danfromsyr
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

an ambitious project no doubt.
the k14 turbo only came on the north american Quantum TD and european TD vanagons

*edit Ohh and the Eco-diesels came with a K14 too. but they only made ~1000 of them.

you can slip a more common K24 in it just doesn't develop boost as quickly. but does improve the land speed of the tortoise

you'll want to keep an active eye and WTB ads on some of the VW diesel specific forums.
http://www.vwdieselparts.com/forum/
and
http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/
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AndyBees
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have an extra Intake.

Also, I'm planning a trip to Alaska this summer. We hope to leave no later than July 5th. I'll be driving my '84 TDI powered Vanagon.

Where might you be leaving from when you head north and what's the anticpated date of departure!
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?Waldo?
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The K14 never came on the Quantum (only the K24 and T3).

The VW K14 came in two versions in North America, the one that is fitted to the US 1.6ECO-diesel and the early Canadian AAZ. The compressor scroll of the AAZ version is larger and so at higher rpms is less labored/restrictive.
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danfromsyr
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

whoops yer right..
seeing as how my 1st TD was a QTD with a K24 and I had to source a K14 for my vanagon TD..

yeah K14s are a bit rare and uncommon at the least.. you may want to put K24 in to get you going or adapt another small turbo.
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?Waldo?
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just posted the following on another forum regarding turbo choice for the 1.6TD in a vanagon but figure it's also pertinent to this thread.

I have always preferred to have more boost in the lower rpms in order to help get the big box moving. I don't tend to rev it to the redline and so having the boost at lower rpms is more important to me than high-end power. The other factor to consider with the vanagon installation is whether or not the turbo interferes with any of the engine mounting components and what work is necessary to eliminate that interference. There were basically 5 different turbo-chargers used on the 1.6TD and 1.9TD engines and provided the appropriate manifold is used, will all bolt up to the cylinder head. They were the T3, K24, K14, T2, and K03. The mounting interference issues of the K24, T3 and K14 can be eliminated using the Quantum/Vanagon exhaust manifold, but that approach introduces other issues with oil drainage and intake plumbing and so is an approach I do not favor.

The T3 and K24 have the same boost characteristics and are both just plain too large for the 1.6TD in a vanagon. Boost doesn't start until about 3,000-3,500 rpms and you can literally get stuck in 2nd gear on moderate grades and even if you rev it to the limit, you cannot shift fast enough to be above the boost threshold in 3rd and without any boost you cannot accelerate. This effect is most apparent at higher altitudes, but those turbos are irritating even at lower altitudes. The K24 and T3 also both severely interfere with the driver's side mounting bracket.

The T2 and K03 are the smallest of the 5 turbos and share the same boost characteristics as each other. Their boost threshold is below idle and so you will see basically instant boost when letting the clutch out. Full boost is developed by 2,000 rpms. They don't ever give the punch of the larger turbos because they are always developing some boost right from idle. They do restrict the exhaust more than the larger turbos and so comparatively hurt high-rpm power some. The K03 when used with the 1.6TD has a very slight interference with the driver's side engine mounting bracket which is very easily eliminated. The k03 does not have any interference when used with the 1.9TD. I have not personally used a T2 in a vanagon, but saw someone else's install on a 1.9TD and it appeared to clear the mounting components without issue.

The last option is the K14. It is middle-of-the-road as far as size is concerned. It is a much better turbo than the K24 and T3. It flows as well as the larger ones at higher rpms and yet spools at least 1,000 rpms sooner. There is some lag, but you definitely feel the boost kick in more than with the k03. The K14 flows better at high-rpms than the K03. The K14 is a significant interference with the driver's side mounting bracket and requires significant modification to the mounting bracket when using the transverse (jetta/golf) manifold.

The overall performance of the K14 is my personal preference but the installation is definitely more difficult. IMO, the easiest way to eliminate the interference with the K14, is to chop the nose off the aluminum mounting bracket and then bolt a piece of 3/8" steel to the bottom of it with an appropriate bend and hole. Then drop the front of the carrier bar 3/4" by adding a spacer, and the engine geometry remains the same as it was. The slight interference with with the k03 mounted to the 1.6TD can be eliminated by grinding or cutting the mounting bracket slightly.

To sum up, if you are planning on using a wastegated turbo on a 1.6TD in a vanagon, DO NOT use a K24 or T3. Use either a K14 if you don't mind a little lag and can do the fabrication necessary or use a K03/T2 from an AAZ with matching manifold for fastest spool with a little loss of top-end but an easy installation.
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iffyaviator
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AndyBees wrote:
I have an extra Intake.

Also, I'm planning a trip to Alaska this summer. We hope to leave no later than July 5th. I'll be driving my '84 TDI powered Vanagon.

Where might you be leaving from when you head north and what's the anticipated date of departure!


I'm leaving from Michigan. I am hoping to leave julyish I dont have an exact date right now it all depends whether I get the Vanagon done. I thought about selling it as is and loose money on it to fly up there. but my Vanagon sits behind are shop at home all sad and wants to be finished up and I don't want to sell it cause it will just be that project i never Finished. I have set a goal to get it finished so I can get up there. I was thinking on my way to Alaska to SWING by EAA AIR ADVENTURE'S OSHKOSH in Wisconsin


I graduate June second I will be going to UAA for an associate's in aviation technology.
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Sir Sam
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have no helpful input other than to show you my trek from after I graduated(engineering school not highschool). Maybe it will give you some ideas and you can see the route I took. It will be an awesome experience for you. Also make sure to lookup the vanagon rescue squad.

http://colorado4wheel.com/content/ak/index.html

Let me know if you want any comments on trip planning! Sorry I cannot help with the diesel project. Post some pics of your van!
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iffyaviator
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is a little more info to this project of mine. I do have another turbo for it, it is T3 turbo I think. http://www.ebay.com/itm/VW-1-6-Diesel-Jetta-Golf-7...mp;vxp=mtr
I bought this one and my problem is where the oil lines hookup are too close to the exhaust manifold and the inlet for air intake is about a 1/4 of an inch away from the motor mount bracket. I will have to do some fabrication to get it to work and it is a lot bigger then the original one. I don't think i will get the performance I will need from it. I do have the original turbo that needs studs drilled out of it and rebuilt. I just talked to a company in Detroit that can rebuild for 400. I think i will go that route. I posted the turbo I purchased on CL for 300. I'm working on one piece at a time getting the turbo squared away and oil lines figured out right now. then move on to getting engine installed

I will post pics of my project soon.
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wildenbeast
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think your T3 will work out in the end. Best to get the right turbo up front. I used a T2 on my 1.9TD. They were becoming harder to find the last time I looked though. For some info on sourcing your parts, my old van's conversion is posted here; http://billwildenberg.shutterfly.com/vwvanagon

Good luck with your project. I hope you are able to get it done before your trip.

Bill
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?Waldo?
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The T3 on a 1.6TD in a vanagon stinks. Too much lag and the placement using either the vanagon/quantum or jetta/golf manifold has serious fitement issues.

As I mentioned in my above post, the K03 is a decent turbo choice, sacrificing a little top-end flow but gaining instant boost off-the-line. You can get brand new actual Borg Warner units (not the Chinese knock-offs) for $600. Sourcing the AAZ manifold to fit them is not particularly difficult if you post a wanted add on the Vortex or vwdiesel.net. The interference with the driver's side mounting bracket is minimal and easily removed with a grinder.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andrew A. Libby wrote:
I just posted the following on another forum regarding turbo choice for the 1.6TD in a vanagon but figure it's also pertinent to this thread.


(quote shortened for reference)

Andrew, this is good information to know.

I have a complete 1.6 TD. As I recall, the guy said it was from a Quantum. It must be a pre 85-86 because it has solid lifters. I purchased it at a very good price without knowing what's on the inside (engine will turn over, turbo spins).

My intent is to build it for a Vanagon application. I have another short block TD engine that's been bored 0.010 oversize. Along with these two items and lots of other pieces parts, I am hoping to put together a pretty good engine.

Now, these Turbo options, performance, and fitment issues makes me have second thoughts. Or, at least go forth with knowing I have to address them.
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?Waldo?
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sure you are well equipped to overcome any of the issues with the 1.6TD install. It is considerably less work than what you have done with the ALH.

I imagine your oversize pistons are 0.020" rather than 0.010" as that smallest oversize is virtually unheard of.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andrew A. Libby wrote:
The K14 never came on the Quantum (only the K24 and T3).

The VW K14 came in two versions in North America, the one that is fitted to the US 1.6ECO-diesel and the early Canadian AAZ. The compressor scroll of the AAZ version is larger and so at higher rpms is less labored/restrictive.


Small correction for searching purposes: the K14 came only on the MK IIIs. For whatever reason the B3/4 AAZs all got the non-aneroid/boost enrichment equipped IPs and smaller K03s throughout their production.
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AndyBees
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andrew A. Libby wrote:
I'm sure you are well equipped to overcome any of the issues with the 1.6TD install. It is considerably less work than what you have done with the ALH.

I imagine your oversize pistons are 0.020" rather than 0.010" as that smallest oversize is virtually unheard of.


Yeah, Andrew, that's what I thought about the pistons. My uncle got the short block in a trade back in the early 90's or late 80's. It sit on a shelf in his garage until about 2000. We put a head on it, etc., and installed it in my brother's '84 Jetta. It's still in that car but has only had about 40k miles on it.

I may be wrong, but I'm thinking it was a Jasper or "factory" rebuild. And, I do remember us discussing as to why a 0.010 oversize. Now, it's possible that I/we may have been mistaken.

Anyway, it is a good engine. I have a set of turbo injectors and turbo IP, as well as the other complete engine with unknown miles on it.
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?Waldo?
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only time I've heard of the 0.010 OS pistons is from factory rebuilds. If yours is a factory rebuild, then it is certainly possible that it has that oversize.
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AndyBees
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, Andrew, I believe that's what my uncle said it was. The next time I see him, I'll ask about it.

I forgot to say, I will be changing the head on it. So, at that point I can clean off the top of a piston to see what's stamped on it.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok I finally put some pics up of my engine and turbo and one shot of the vanagon in the snow

http://s939.beta.photobucket.com/user/iffyaviator/library/vanagon

I have my old turbo and the new T3 that I'm trying to sell for $300

u can see I repainted the engine and took my time.
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