Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
VW Model years - Production year versus model year.
Page: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Forum Index -> Split Bus Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Lind
Samba Member


Joined: November 06, 2000
Posts: 9913
Location: idaho
Lind is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:58 am    Post subject: VW Model years - Production year versus model year. Reply with quote

prior to 1955, the model year of a VW corresponded exactly with the calendar year. then with much fanfare, in august 1955, VW introduced the model year system. so a VW built on august 1st 1955 was a '56 model. during the '50s, VW was fairly strict on their policy of progressive refinements, where they would make changes as soon as they felt an improvement was necessary. little by little in the mid-late 1950s, VW started saving up certain changes for the new model year. the mechanical type changes were likely to happen whenever they realized something needed improved, but the trim changes were happening largely on a different schedule. by the 1960s, VW was clearly saving most of its trim changes for the model year change. there were also certain regulations that were being implemented by the united states department of transportation, which required certain things to comply with the next model year vehicle. (like the minimum headlight to ground distance in 1960, which forced a redesign of the Karmann Ghia nose). in 1965, VW started putting the model year in the VIN number of all models.

but there was a little problem. after VW introduced the model year with much fanfare in 1955, they didn't mention much about it in technical literature until the early '60s. so this left an unclear area in the late '50s. there could be many reasons for this. perhaps since they had already stated the change, they didn't feel the need to restate it on a yearly basis. perhaps they were more interested in making and selling cars that worked, than putting effort into restating the obvious. and I say obvious because there were some really obvious changes that were happening on the model year change. the most obvious was the colors. they were changing colors of vehicles throughout the model line on august 1st.

people tended to call their cars the year that it stated on the title and registration. titles were not created in Germany with the car's production. titles are created in the individual states where cars are first registered. a dealership sends some paperwork to the state department which is responsible for titling vehicles, and they issue the title for whatever the dealership tells them. since VW did not have major cosmetic changes on every single year like Detroit did, sometimes dealerships would fudge a little. an unsold '59 kombi could become a '60 kombi, and the consumer would be none the wiser. well, unless they checked the VIN number. the vast majority of mis-titled years on VWs show the vehicle to be one year newer than we know it to be. most states will allow someone to get the year on their title corrected if they show some proof that the original title was in error. this can be important for getting model-year license plates, which is a program than many states have.

fast forward to present times. older models are generally considered to be cooler than newer models. so now many people want a '58, not a '59. so there is quite a bit of confusion when someone poses their car as one year earlier than the model year which it actually is. this is the exact opposite of what dealerships were doing back in the day. I guess people will do many things to make their car seem more appealing.

so anyway, VW put out a lot of literature, and there had to be a Rosetta Stone of model year cutoffs for the late '50s somewhere out there, just nobody had found it and brought it forth yet. well, here it is. it clearly states the model year cutoffs in the late '50s in a piece of VW literature printed in Germany by Volkswagenwerk for dealerships in the USA.

there are a few things that are to be noted. VW states in the piece that there were vehicles built before the model year cutoffs which are equipped as the later model year. (i.e. if anything, it is from the newer model year) I believe this is to account for prototype vehicles, and or vehicles which have prototype features. (like the convertible karmann ghia built in mid 1957 to test the fit of the new body panels). the book also shows the '54 model cutoff to be at the change from barndoor to post-barndoor. perhaps they were trying to avoid the confusion of whether a '55 is a barndoor or not. anyway, I don't agree with that cutoff, and I think that there are '55 barndoors. also, as has been generally noted before in many places, there are no 1955 Karmann Ghias, even though they were introduced before august 1st 1955. they were always intended to be '56 models.

this piece does contradict some of what is said in Progressive Refinements, but there are plenty of errors in progressive refinements, which can be easily proven. I believe that this piece is much stronger than PR.

hopefully this will shut down most of the debate for people trying to pre-date the vehicles.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/dealers/60salesmanbook.php
(the important pages are near the end of the book)

**all chassis numbers are for the last vehicle produced in the month listed.**
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
.
Wanted:
Idaho VW license plate frames or other dealership items.
VWoA literature and early dealership or distributor literature/pictures/information
.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
thom
Samba Member


Joined: October 12, 2000
Posts: 5943
Location: Sacramento
thom is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice! This looks the the be-all/end-all for this argument.
_________________
-Thom
1956 Single Cab
1957 Porsche 356A Sunroof
1957 23-Window Deluxe
1957 Mercedes Westfalia single cab
1963 Unimog 404
1965 E-Type
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
hugheseum
Samba Member


Joined: February 11, 2004
Posts: 2690
Location: oregon
hugheseum is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

american model year is such a waste of time..........cant argue with month and year of manufacture

of course if you love to overexplain everything then hell yes yea "american model year"
_________________
Have a great day!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
///Mink
Samba Member


Joined: May 03, 2000
Posts: 5051
Location: Fair Oaks, CA
///Mink is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hugheseum wrote:
american model year is such a waste of time..........cant argue with month and year of manufacture

of course if you love to overexplain everything then hell yes yea "american model year"


"American" model year?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
ferry
Samba Member


Joined: July 02, 2004
Posts: 244
Location: the netherlands
ferry is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I own a december 1958 panel ..my MOT station said its a 58 bus so ..ive got a 58 ..and for all the vw purists its a 59 ..
_________________
Former bmx shop wob61,combat veteran iraq
After several aircooled ,now a 1986 t3 syncro westfalia
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
crofty
Judas of the North


Joined: August 09, 2000
Posts: 19672
Location: Land of Whine and Phonies
crofty is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

///Mink wrote:
hugheseum wrote:
american model year is such a waste of time..........cant argue with month and year of manufacture

of course if you love to overexplain everything then hell yes yea "american model year"


"American" model year?


"American" as in " That makes my cars a year younger, and therefore somehow less cool, so that system does not apply to me"
_________________
Your Vanagon sucks, Stop waving at me.

HamburgerBrad wrote:

I slept on crofty's tent once. I passed out drunk from two bottles of Everett's brother's wine.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
dmuis
Samba Member


Joined: September 01, 2004
Posts: 381
Location: Sunny Alberta, Wild Rose Country.
dmuis is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for pointing that out Lind!

Was it just added to the technical lit?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
hugheseum
Samba Member


Joined: February 11, 2004
Posts: 2690
Location: oregon
hugheseum is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

american as in the rest of the world doesnt use a model yr.........in fact we dont really either,if you want the correct parts for your car use the date and yr of manufacture..........if you love to overcomplicate by all means use an american model yr to refer to your cars vintage...........in fact put your hand on your hip and act whitty as fuck when ya do it
_________________
Have a great day!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Lind
Samba Member


Joined: November 06, 2000
Posts: 9913
Location: idaho
Lind is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hugheseum wrote:
american as in the rest of the world doesnt use a model yr.........in fact we dont really either,if you want the correct parts for your car use the date and yr of manufacture..........if you love to overcomplicate by all means use an american model yr to refer to your cars vintage...........in fact put your hand on your hip and act whitty as fuck when ya do it

I'd like to see you at an american car show telling everyone that their car is actually a different year because model years are BS. I am sure that would make you seem whitty as fuck.....
_________________
.
Wanted:
Idaho VW license plate frames or other dealership items.
VWoA literature and early dealership or distributor literature/pictures/information
.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
obus Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: March 08, 2001
Posts: 11065
Location: just off Garden State Parkway Exit 81
obus is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still have a 1959. Cool
_________________
July 1959 Mango Standard Bus aka Obus L346 L347 https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=256592&highlight=
June 1973 Pumpkin Orange Thing aka Othing L30H
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=711775&highlight=
1960 Paprika Red Karmann Ghia Convertible aka Schatze L452 built 5/20/60
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight=
66 21 window bus built 8/31/65 https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=777273
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Facebook Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Lind
Samba Member


Joined: November 06, 2000
Posts: 9913
Location: idaho
Lind is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dmuis wrote:
Thanks for pointing that out Lind!

Was it just added to the technical lit?

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/

I scanned it and Everett added it to the site last week, but I was too busy to write the dissertation until today.
_________________
.
Wanted:
Idaho VW license plate frames or other dealership items.
VWoA literature and early dealership or distributor literature/pictures/information
.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
///Mink
Samba Member


Joined: May 03, 2000
Posts: 5051
Location: Fair Oaks, CA
///Mink is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hugheseum wrote:
american as in the rest of the world doesnt use a model yr.........


They don't? Please explain the 3rd digit in the VIN of every ACVW built since August of 1964.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
dawerks
Samba Member


Joined: September 15, 2010
Posts: 2349

dawerks is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good post!

It seemed to me like page 1 and 2 were the same, but a closer look at the 'vin #s' shows that the Model Year cut offs are different than the year of production.

Very good information! This probably won't get 'adopted' and I can see people being very resistant to change, but this is the definitive/final word on this issue.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
hitest
Samba Member


Joined: September 30, 2008
Posts: 10296
Location: Prime Meridian, ID
hitest is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

///Mink wrote:
hugheseum wrote:
american as in the rest of the world doesnt use a model yr.........


They don't? Please explain the 3rd digit in the VIN of every ACVW built since August of 1964.


Yeah, I don't quite understand the "american" opinion on this either. Many imported automobiles introduced new models prior to actual model year- and I know of no VIN system set up uniquely for US- bound cars (could be some though).

My '71 Suzuki LJ10 is an example (built in 70- and never exported to the US). If I searched for parts- I'd get exactly this many hits: zero. Tell 'em it's a '71 and the parts world is my oyster. I think I understand you mean "conversationally" it's an american trait- but I don't believe it is strictly an american behavior.

What do ya'll think of the new, friendlier Bradford?
_________________
EverettB wrote:

I wonder what the nut looks like.



'62 L390 151, '62 L469 117, '63 L380 113, '64 L87 311, '65 L512 265, '65 L31 SO-42, '66 L360 251, '68 L30k 141, '71 L12 113, '74 ORG 181

FU#5
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
oldschool64bus
Samba Member


Joined: August 25, 2005
Posts: 532
Location: Boise, Id
oldschool64bus is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hitest wrote:


What do ya'll think of the new, friendlier Bradford?



IT'LL NEVER LAST! Laughing so can I be cool and call my big hatch fried egg panel a 63 then haha
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger Gallery Classifieds Feedback
carterzest
Samba Member


Joined: January 22, 2008
Posts: 3842
Location: Eagle, ID/Sun Valley, ID
carterzest is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lind wrote:
dmuis wrote:
Thanks for pointing that out Lind!

Was it just added to the technical lit?

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/

I scanned it and Everett added it to the site last week, but I was too busy to write the dissertation until today.
Nice writeup/dissertation Lind. thanks!
_________________
Happiness=Portland, Oregon in the rearview mirror!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
mattcuddy
Samba Member


Joined: October 22, 2003
Posts: 2036
Location: Philly, PA
mattcuddy is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the rosetta stone analogy.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
candyman
Samba Trout Slayer


Joined: December 20, 2003
Posts: 2694
Location: Missoula MT
candyman is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great write up Lind. But sadly my nov 1960 panel is still a 61 Crying or Very sad
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
BulliBill
Samba Member


Joined: July 09, 2004
Posts: 4572
Location: St Charles, MO
BulliBill is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As usual, Lind comes through again with great and undisputable VW Transporter information (model year clarification), and a very thorough explanation. Thanks again Lind!

Bill
_________________
I'm looking for these license plate frames for my fleet:
Coeur D'Alene - Lake Shore Volkswagen
Mission VW - San Fernando
Thornton VW - Stockton

Thanks for any help!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
campingbox Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: November 14, 2000
Posts: 10196
Location: Petaluma, CA
campingbox is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for sharing Lind. It's really cool to see something I have always wondered about confirmed in print.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Split Bus All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Page 1 of 6

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2023, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB
Links to eBay or other vendor sites may be affiliate links where the site receives compensation.