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dlb Samba Member
Joined: July 08, 2010 Posts: 114 Location: Shawnigan Lake
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Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 2:43 pm Post subject: air-cooled: engine swaps? overbore, larger pistons? |
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after the recent big road trip, i got to fantasizing about having just a tad more power in the air-cooled westfalia. are there any relatively direct bolt-in air-cooled engines? i've come to like the air-cooled design and know that porsche also made some air-cooled engines.
failing that, is there any room for overboring these cylinders and putting in larger pistons? |
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82WestyMan Samba Member
Joined: December 28, 2006 Posts: 1098 Location: Western OR
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Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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Porsche engines don't have the torque you need
You're not the first to wish for more power from your 2.0L A/C but it takes more than just increasing the displacement, you need better heads, a better cam and fuel management before increasing the displacement
If you haven't stopped by AirCooled Technologies, it's worth a visit and time
Jake is considered by many to be the final word on increased performance Type4 engines
... but check you bank account first... the real, reliable increased Type4 performance doesn't come cheap _________________ "The floggings will continue until morale improves"
"I never did give anybody hell. I just told the truth and they thought it was hell" - Harry S. Truman
82 Westfalia - w/ a Raby 'Camper Special' engine |
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fredn Samba Member
Joined: May 27, 2010 Posts: 332 Location: Vancouver
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Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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cam and 1700 big valve heads. AA makes large pistons and cylinders. megasquirt?
time and research.
balanced crank, matched pistons
you can spend your time or spend your money with jake.
Jake will tell you he is the only way and honestly for most people he is, but you can do it yourself.
Do some reading on the performance part of the samba forums. People build big type 4 engines all the time. _________________ 1982 Air Cooled Vanagon Carat Weekender Interior
tencentlife wrote: |
...most are doing what most auto forum participants do, parroting things they've heard |
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randywebb Samba Member
Joined: February 15, 2005 Posts: 3815 Location: Greater Metropolitan Nimrod, Orygun
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Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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maybe 4 cyl. 356 Porsche engines don't have the torque you need
but, a 3.0L Porsche SC motor will have much, much more torque than any Vanagon motor - it is after all, a much larger motor
what you are thinking of is the curve of torque vs. rpm - which will be slanted more towards the higher rpm's on a sports car engine
OTOH, the SC motor uses CIS and has a very torquey and not so power-making torque curve _________________ 1986 2.1L Westy 2wd Auto Trans. |
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Popsvan Samba Member
Joined: May 10, 2010 Posts: 112 Location: Louisa, VA
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Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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Any hope for an A/C auto wety getting more pep? Even with a built engine? _________________ Rory
Louisa VA
87 Westy Automatic |
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Randy in Maine Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2003 Posts: 34890 Location: The Beach
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thummmper Samba Member
Joined: November 25, 2009 Posts: 2015 Location: Meadow Valley, California Republic
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Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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my machinist builds a 2400 aircooled engine that lives. I never asked what it costs, but he had an aftermarket injection rig on one he said was worth 10k. I'm sure his special race motor was much more than his other engines. said he sold it for 7k, which leads to a much lower number for the 2.4 with cog belt, striker crank, etc.
he complained that new vw cases were 750.00 now, a lot more than he used to pay a year ago.
I would be curious to drive one myself. |
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fredn Samba Member
Joined: May 27, 2010 Posts: 332 Location: Vancouver
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Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 10:57 pm Post subject: |
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thummper I've watched your work on the mid-enginge chrysler. If you can't build an air cooled that rips no one could. Obviously not your cup of tea as you have chosen the more challenging and (for me anyway) very interesting custom motor option. Anyway thanks for the DIY inspiration. I always think of how hard your project is when I get stuck on a simple rusted bolt. I think, "Oh well, at least I don't have to _______ fill in the blank with some crazy thummmper fab work. _________________ 1982 Air Cooled Vanagon Carat Weekender Interior
tencentlife wrote: |
...most are doing what most auto forum participants do, parroting things they've heard |
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ddwbeagles Samba Member
Joined: May 12, 2009 Posts: 507 Location: Stephens City, VA
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Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 11:30 pm Post subject: AC Type 4 |
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Looks like most of the important links have been mentioned, but you'll have a wider audience over on the bay forumn since most of them (bar the Type 1 crowd) are driving said engines. Jake's camper specials seem to set the standard, but they are not cheap. There are a few (very few) others that can build a more powerful and reliable engine, but do your research and avoid the mass builders like the plague. _________________ David W - from Chesterfield, VA / Jefferson SD / Stephens City, VA in that order.
71 Ghia Coupe autostick
78 Westy
86 Vanagon Weekender
hazetguy wrote: |
i'm going to stock up on search buttons |
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Jake Raby Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2003 Posts: 7433 Location: Aircooled Heaven USA
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Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 9:48 am Post subject: |
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82WestyMan wrote: |
Porsche engines don't have the torque you need
You're not the first to wish for more power from your 2.0L A/C but it takes more than just increasing the displacement, you need better heads, a better cam and fuel management before increasing the displacement
If you haven't stopped by AirCooled Technologies, it's worth a visit and time
Jake is considered by many to be the final word on increased performance Type4 engines
... but check you bank account first... the real, reliable increased Type4 performance doesn't come cheap |
Glad yours is still performing well
The CS has gone through some evolutionary changes and is better than ever.. Today the reality is that the engine costs 12,500.00 to purchase and won't be getting any cheaper, at all.
The current combo for the engine will carry it through 2014, but I'd expect by then that it will be a 14-15,000.00 expenditure IF we can continue to source the quality components that are required to create it.
In engine kit form, its going away completely. _________________ Jake Raby
Raby Engine Development
www.rabyenginedevelopment.com
"I've never given anyone Hell, I just told them the truth and they thought it was Hell" |
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fredn Samba Member
Joined: May 27, 2010 Posts: 332 Location: Vancouver
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Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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12,500?
only makes sense in a porsche. _________________ 1982 Air Cooled Vanagon Carat Weekender Interior
tencentlife wrote: |
...most are doing what most auto forum participants do, parroting things they've heard |
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reluctantartist Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2006 Posts: 1927 Location: Bloomington, IN
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Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: |
The CS has gone through some evolutionary changes and is better than ever.. Today the reality is that the engine costs 12,500.00 to purchase and won't be getting any cheaper, at all. |
Jake is that for a complete engine or the engine kit? _________________ 1982 Westy, 1974 412 Variant... Yes, Aircooled's are great! Oh and I do have modern computer controlled vehicles too, but I just don't care about them. |
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fredn Samba Member
Joined: May 27, 2010 Posts: 332 Location: Vancouver
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Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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complete engine as stated above _________________ 1982 Air Cooled Vanagon Carat Weekender Interior
tencentlife wrote: |
...most are doing what most auto forum participants do, parroting things they've heard |
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