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Water pump finally changed in my 85 now NO SPARK?
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camerahunter
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 6:25 pm    Post subject: Water pump finally changed in my 85 now NO SPARK? Reply with quote

After way too much time getting the water pump changed I turned the key and nothing, very anti-climactic after two days staring down the engine off and on.
The switches above the coil switch, no spark from the coil wire when holding it close to the ground.
I didn't un-hook anything except the temp sender and the other brown wire on the thermostat housing.
At least not on purpose. I even switch the coil with a know working one and still no spark.
Something must have come un-hooked by accident but for the life of me I can't see anything.
I checked all the fuses and they are all fine.
Any advice?

Thank you,

David
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wbx
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Which of your 3 vans?
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'84 Westy (first owner).......but my daily driver has pedals
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camerahunter
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's the Blue one, 85 with a 1.9L.
That water pump was hell to change.'

Thank you,

David
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BCWesty
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

how's your battery? Could it have been drained down by a draw when changing the pump?
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wbx
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are the injectors firing?
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'84 Westy (first owner).......but my daily driver has pedals
My "perspective" mantra:
A Volkswagen Vanagon is just a material thing,
As such, it is of the earth,
And if i need to, I can let my Van go.
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camerahunter
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The battery is good, I even threw on the charger just in case but it didn't need a charge. I'm not sure if the injectors are firing. Everyone went to church for dinner and I am home alone, dirty, bleeding, and tired.

Thank you,

David
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Zeitgeist 13
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you remove the distributor as part of this exercise? Are you sure it's fully seated and the electrical plugs are intact?
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camerahunter
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I actually did pull up the distributor to get the top nut off. I do have it down and I can't turn the rotor, seems seated to me but it also seems like it could go down just a little more.

Thank you,

David
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camerahunter
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like the distributor scared everyone off?
Perhaps I am not going about this the right way?
Should there be spark out of the coil wire? or is it only checked at the spark plug?
Should I just start over?
#1 cyl up, rotate until the distributor will go in pointing at the #1 plug wire and then set the timing?

Thank you,

David
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wbx
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I went to dinner with the family (in the van Smile ), so...

I asked about the injectors because if no fuel and no spark, the ECU doesn't know the engine is turning over = no hall signal.

But basics first - fuel, spark, compression. Which do you have?
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'84 Westy (first owner).......but my daily driver has pedals
My "perspective" mantra:
A Volkswagen Vanagon is just a material thing,
As such, it is of the earth,
And if i need to, I can let my Van go.
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camerahunter
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am still home alone and now it's snowing.
I think the distributor is in wrong.
Something about an offset?

When we turned the key before the fuel pump came on and switches were switching, everything seemed fine and normal except it didn't fire.
The van usually fires right up first crank.

Thank you,

David
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OwnYourReality
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like wbx said, "basics first - fuel, spark, compression" Sounds like you can hear the fuel pump run? If so, then 'safe' to say you have fuel supply. But you won't know about compression because it isn't even cranking over? If I'm correct in understanding what's happening. I would have to lean towards no supply to the coil so no spark, which was the other part of wbx's equation - "no fuel, no spark, the ecu doesn't know..." Definitely not a pro with your motor by any means so pointing you in a direction to look, I have none. What makes you think you have the distributor in wrong? If you had reference marks when you pulled it & put it back in the same place then you should be ok.
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camerahunter
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I just pulled it up a little to get the nut off the water pump. After finishing the water pump install I pushed it back down, tightened it up, thought I was good to go.
However, when I turned it over and it didn't fire right up I tried a couple more times and then got some help and checked the rotor turning. It wasn't. I didn't have it down far enough.
So, then I tried pointing the distributor to #1 position, still no spark, thought it was in backwards, turned it 180, still no spark.
But I don't think I was checking for spark correctly.
I think it has to be done at the plug not by just pulling the coil wire.
I will get back on it tomorrow morning bright and early and see if i can figure it out.

Thank you,

David
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windnsea
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the top back side of the water pump is a hose about 1.5 inches long. Behind this is a massive grounding point for about 5-7 brown wires. I'd check each and every one of them to make sure that you didn't complete a worn wire breaking inside the insulation at the connector. Alot of these wires can be or are prone to disintegrate due to years of flexing.

This is also a ground point for ignition functions and the ECU box. I'd really suspect that this is where the problem is. I'd also reseat the big connector to the ECU several times.

Hope this helps.
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wbx
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

camerahunter wrote:

However, when I turned it over and it didn't fire right up I tried a couple more times and then got some help and checked the rotor turning. It wasn't. I didn't have it down far enough.


OK... there we have it. Get the distributor orientation figured out. Reading this, i would feel very confident saying that is your problem right there (and i'm not a terribly confident person Wink ).

I'm not sure if you are familiar with the innards and how the distributor is rotated, but there is a gear pressed on the crankshaft that engages a gear at the bottom of the distributor. When you pressed it back down, the odds are very good that you re-engaged it a tooth or so off, throwing your timing so far out of whack that you have no chance of starting. And you can't just spin the dizzy because of that big vacuum canister on there...

So again with the basics:
* confirm that you are getting spark (yes, pull the wire off the plug and see if the shield zaps to the block).
* If no, check for hall signal to ECU, and everything between the coil and plugs
* If yes, spend time finding TDC and orienting the distributor correctly (sorry, don't have that procedure off the top of my head).
* If timing checks out, on to fuel (pull a bank of injectors and see if they squirt into a jar when cranking)
* If yes, on to vacuum leaks, etc.
* If no, then time to look at the harness
* etc. etc. etc.

Now, having said all that, i still haven't gotten my van to pass smog, so take all that advice with a big ol' bucket of salt.

Good luck!
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'84 Westy (first owner).......but my daily driver has pedals
My "perspective" mantra:
A Volkswagen Vanagon is just a material thing,
As such, it is of the earth,
And if i need to, I can let my Van go.
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camerahunter
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think I pulled the gear up at all. Just the top part with the notched part with two teeth.
I can check everything out in the morning and make sure I am pointing to #1 and go from there.
I hope this will end the blue van saga because the white van needs the clutch slave replaced (popped after changing the clutch master cylinder), then the throttle body replaced when it gets here, and then timed and it should be good to go.

Thank you,

David
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Baxta
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forgive me if this doesn't apply to your van, but is there a connector at the base of the distributor - 3 wires coming out of it? That's the Hall sender connection and if you've loosened/disturbed that connection you won't get spark. Give 'er a gentle nudge and see what happens...

Good luck!
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camerahunter
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I got it fixed this morning in about an hour.
I had to pull the distributor out of the white van to fix the blue.
The white one needs the clutch slave replaced, throttle body changed, and as long as there are no vacuum leaks I am putting in new injectors and that one should be good to go, oh yeah, once I get a distributor.

Here's the dead one. Last summer I patched it together because one of the Hall sender wires broke in two inside the distributor. I'm afraid it's finally toast. There is one washer in the bottom that broken in half and maybe one or more missing. It's very wobbly down there.
I could probably get it to go but I prefer to just get a new one.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I appreciate all the help and advice. As always it was right on target.

Thank you,

David[/img]
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