| Author |
Message |
wasatchdave
Samba Member
Joined: November 05, 2015
Posts: 4
Location: Los Angeles
|
 Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 11:26 pm Post subject: 81 Air cooled from auction - engine options |
 |
|
Hi Everyone,
I just recently bought a 81 Air cooled from auction, have no previous knowledge of its condition or modifications. Odometer says just over 300K, and oil change sticker says Santa Barbara, although I got it in LA. Here's a link to some pics
http://www.copart.com/us/Lot/35089365/Photos?SearchId=0
It appears to have a dead cylinder 3, I am waiting to see the results of the compression test to figure out how bad the motor is. If the odometer is correct, the engine has been already rebuilt a couple times or more.......
Down the road I wanna do a conversion but for now I just want to get it rolling and have some fun.....
In some of the posts above you guys mentioned getting 100k miles on a rebuild, which sounds awesome to me right now (How can I achieve this?)
So should I:
1) Just throw on a new left head (BTW are the bus depot ones any good?!?)
2) Get a rebuild from a shop in LA?
3) Order a remanufactured long block? Specifically, I saw ones from Mid America Motors, Bus Depot, and GEX for around $1800. Please list any experience or expertise you have with these companies.
I think if I am going to spend $2k on a rebuild or reman I would hope that it could last at least a few years and 40,000-50,000 miles. Is this reasonable?
Thank you so much in advance for your responses, I look forward to becoming a contributing member to this site as I get acclimated to my new wheels. And If anyone has ever seen or worked on my van PLEASE let me know so I can learn more about it!!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Zeitgeist 13
Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009
Posts: 12115
Location: Port Manteau
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 9:45 am Post subject: |
|
|
That's a really nice van! Years ago I was given an '80 AC van with a basket case engine sitting in the cargo area. I "rebuilt" it with a combination of new and used parts, and it ran awesome for years afterward. Just get it home and diagnose the problems ([cough]...dropped valve) and just resolve those needed in order to get it back on the road so you can see how the rest of the van stops, turns and rolls. Congrats on a sweet new project
_________________
Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
pinetreeporsche
Samba Member
Joined: June 11, 2009
Posts: 752
Location: Falls Church, VA
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 10:38 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ...and I bet I'm not the only reader who wonders how much (how little) you paid for it. If it's not too personal a Q.... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
danfromsyr
Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2004
Posts: 15144
Location: Syracuse, NY
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 10:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
do stay AWAY from GEX motors..
I hear headflowmasters often recommended for aircooled engine work.
http://www.headflowmasters.com/
_________________
| Abscate wrote: |
| These are the reasons we have words like “wanker” |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Fiddlestyx
Samba Member
Joined: July 08, 2015
Posts: 401
Location: Texas
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 11:09 am Post subject: |
|
|
Congrats and have fun with it.
What tires does it have? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32625
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
AZ Landshaper
Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2009
Posts: 1698
Location: The Old Pueblo
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 6:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
You will need to come kindly to terms with your ass or u will be pushing that van a lot. And possibly a bit of both.
And as I've heard said many times before welcome to the sickness I like to call my hobby.
One last bit of advice, try to take to it systematically or you could be burned out and broke before the next rest area. Should that happen send me a PM. I've got a friend who might be interested in a van (for the right price).
_________________
Support Small Business.
-------------------------------------------------------
85 Weekender w/ EJ22
Previously
64, 71, 72, 73, 76, 81, 84, 85 & 87 Campmobiles and Westfalias
and a 67 bug. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
VWinVT
Samba Member
Joined: April 21, 2013
Posts: 1541
Location: North East Kingdom
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 6:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Zeitgeist 13 wrote: |
| That's a really nice van! Years ago I was given an '80 AC van with a basket case engine sitting in the cargo area. I "rebuilt" it with a combination of new and used parts, and it ran awesome for years afterward. Just get it home and diagnose the problems ([cough]...dropped valve) and just resolve those needed in order to get it back on the road so you can see how the rest of the van stops, turns and rolls. Congrats on a sweet new project |
X2....spend as little as possible to get it to run and drive...live with it for a period of time....then prioritize its/your needs.
If $$$$ is not an issue...send it to a specialist and have it restored.
_________________
1981 Westfalia with a 2001 Cabrio ABA
Small wheel turns by the firing rod,
Big wheel turns by the grace of God.
Every time that wheel turns 'round,
You're bound to cover just a little more ground. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50349
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 8:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The bottom end may still be original, hard to know without tearing it down or finding paper work that says otherwise. The heads surely have had some work over the years and are likely the source you the dead cylinder.
You can turn the engine over by hand and feel for compression on each cylinder and/or you can spin the engine with the starter and listen to see if one cylinder sounds different from the others. If you have good compression on all the cylinders you problem might be as simple as needing a spark plug or just an injector not functioning on one of the cylinders. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wasatchdave
Samba Member
Joined: November 05, 2015
Posts: 4
Location: Los Angeles
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 12:17 pm Post subject: compression update |
|
|
Thank you everyone for the warm welcome and replies. Here is an update on the van:
I checked compression yesterday as follows:
#1,2,4 ~ 105-110 psi
#3 ~ 80 psi
I was also to locate the previous owner from a box of parts he left in the van. He gave me a lot of valuable insight about the history of it.
The tires are size 27x8.5xR14 lug tires, almost brand new.
The previous owner said he thought he got sand in the engine recently so I should go ahead with a full rebuild.
Conemac Engineering in Canoga Park has been rebuilding air-cooled for 43 years and they offered to rebuild my long block for $1549 once I get it out. This is with a Chinese cylinder kit, he said moly would be extra.
Do you guys have experience with the Chinese engine kits (sounds like bad quality) versus moly kits or other kits? I am trying to keep costs down this round until I can get all my ducks in a row for a Subaru (or Bostig?) swap.
Thanks!
Dave |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Vanagon Nut
Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008
Posts: 10379
Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 12:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Since you mention potential air to water cooled swap....
http://losangeles.craigslist.org/lgb/pts/5297411928.html
And if you went with another engine swap platform, at least your bus is water cooled ready.
And, this will provide ample incentive to reseal that duct taped heat exchange box at dash. 
(though I'd suggest getting a WBX box and re-seal that).
But if budget is tight, search for a used air cooled 2.0 I'm not familiar with any potential finite differences (minimal I'm sure) but the later model year Bay windows used the same engine.
Neil.
_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
1988 West DIY 50º ABA
VE7TBN |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Vanagon Nut
Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008
Posts: 10379
Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 12:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
.... and if you to dive into an air to water swap now, but want to reduce initial costs slightly, save some time.....
install new long pipes, rad + fan, drivetrain, do front heater etc. later. AFAIK, in terms of the cooling system, the main difference between various engine swaps is how one adapts the engine cooling hoses to the long pipes and heater hoses. You can even do this work while running the bus with the air cooled engine.
http://www.van-cafe.com/home/van/page_1136_221/stainless-steel-coolant-pipe-kit-1.9ltr-1.25.html
Neil.
_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
1988 West DIY 50º ABA
VE7TBN |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
williamM
Samba Member
Joined: August 07, 2008
Posts: 4333
Location: southwest Arizona
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 1:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Have 5 sets in the field- holding up great (AA) I used to measure each piston and cylinder for size and weight- but all were right on- no problem- but do stay clear of chinese mains and probably rod bearings- some were aluminum base and had problems.
The bottom ends are really good, so concentrate on getting your cylinder heads up to par with correctly reamed guides and new ex valves- new cast heads are a good bet.
_________________
some days I get up and just sit and think. Some days I just sit.
opinion untempered by fact is ignorance.
Don't step in any! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
?Waldo?
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2006
Posts: 9752
Location: Where?
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 1:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
ALL STOP!
| The Bentley Manual wrote: |
Compression pressures
Air-cooled-AFC
nominal............. ........6-9bar (87-31 psi)
minimum....................5.0 bar (73 psi)
max. difference
between cylinders......3.0 bar (44 psi)
|
According to the factory service manual your compression pressures are within spec. Your lowest cylinder is above 73 psi and the max difference is 30 psi. You're good. No need for any action in that regard. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50349
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 3:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Andrew A. Libby wrote: |
ALL STOP!
| The Bentley Manual wrote: |
Compression pressures
Air-cooled-AFC
nominal............. ........6-9bar (87-31 psi)
minimum....................5.0 bar (73 psi)
max. difference
between cylinders......3.0 bar (44 psi)
|
According to the factory service manual your compression pressures are within spec. Your lowest cylinder is above 73 psi and the max difference is 30 psi. You're good. No need for any action in that regard. |
I would agree so long as the low compression is being caused by the rings. If it is the valves the problem could be worse in short order. Do a wet compression test and maybe a leak down test as well. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
?Waldo?
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2006
Posts: 9752
Location: Where?
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 4:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Wet test would be fine to do but I think you're borrowing trouble. Spec is spec and it's within spec. If the cylinder is dead it's not because of the compression. Look at the injector/ignition for the real issue and probably once firing, the compression would come back. No rebuild required. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wasatchdave
Samba Member
Joined: November 05, 2015
Posts: 4
Location: Los Angeles
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 8:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Wow thanks guys. I will check it out tomorrow and report back |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50349
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 8:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Andrew A. Libby wrote: |
| Wet test would be fine to do but I think you're borrowing trouble. Spec is spec and it's within spec. If the cylinder is dead it's not because of the compression. Look at the injector/ignition for the real issue and probably once firing, the compression would come back. No rebuild required. |
You can have almost normal compression on one of these engines and have a seat that is moving around in the head just waiting its chance to fall all the way out. Also if you are just getting leakage between the head of the valve and the seat this may greatly increase the head temperatures thus causing accelerated failure. One ignores a potential valve problem on an air cooled engine at their own peril. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Zeitgeist 13
Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009
Posts: 12115
Location: Port Manteau
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2015 11:31 am Post subject: |
|
|
A loose valve seat should produce some telltale rattling noises.
_________________
Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50349
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2015 12:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Zeitgeist 13 wrote: |
| A loose valve seat should produce some telltale rattling noises. |
Initially they don't move all that much so aren't going to make much of any noise. When the one seat in my old 1800 started moving around I knew something wasn't quite right but couldn't pin point it. The compression was good, but the power and gas mileage were off a bit and slowly got worse, even the valve adjustment barely changed. It took over a year of driving for the problem to final get bad enough for me to identify it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
